Please no monster class levels

[Nathal]

I remember making up NPCs and Monsters in 3rd Edition started to feel like a chore. I know, to each his own, but that's one thing 4E did much better. I am more of a 2nd Edition guy overall, and would rather play 3rd than DM it. I'm still hoping 5E takes the best of each edition, at least in spirit. Class levels on monsters sounds like a bad idea to me. I'm the sort of DM who likes fast prep time. Anybody else with me on those points?

 

[Janaxstrus]

No.

I like monsters with class levels. Then again, it's not required either. There are 5 books of monsters sans levels.

 

[YRUSirius]

What if class levels on monsters only have to add class features, and not much else?

Say you take a goblin and want to add 5 levels of the fighter class. You look at the fighter advancement table and see that a level 5 fighter got like 4-5 class features in total. You add those 4-5 features.

What else would you need to modify? Hm, hit points. Give the goblins 4-5 d10 additional hit points. What else? Skills? Maybe. Feats? What if feats and class features are the same? Abilities? Yeah, maybe increase some abilities.

Hm, but anything else?

-YRUSirius

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Make it a modular option. Everyone's happy.

 

[Gundark]

From how it looks there are no levels for monsters. They are looking at making a basic Orc a challenge for adventurers for longer. There may be some kind of module later on that allows you to tinker with monsters.

 

[KidSnide]

I think it's important to have a method for (1) providing class abilities to monsters and (2) increasing the power of monsters. It would be nice if that method was less complicated than the 3.x method of performing PC character creation for some NPC.

The problem with just adding class levels to monsters is that you end up providing way more abilities than are needed. My 9th level orc wizard doesn't need as many spells as a 9th level PC wizard. Sure, it would be useful if I could do that - maybe the orc wizard is a major villain and it's important to define the full range of his utility abilities? But most of the time, the 9th level orc wizard is going to appear for 2-6 rounds, fire off 2-6 spells and then get killed. This second type of orc wizard needs a faster, less complicated NPC creation system.

-KS

 

[am181d]

While I don't want monsters to have classes by default, I do like the option of taking a monster race and using it as a classed NPC (or even, in the right situation, a classed PC).

So if I can make a Kobold or a Doppleganger or a Centaur with class levels, that's good.

What I don't want is to have to assign 14 spellcasting levels to a Red Dragon.

 

[YRUSirius]

But most of the time, the 9th level orc wizard is going to appear for 2-6 rounds, fire off 2-6 spells and then get killed. This second type of orc wizard needs a faster, less complicated NPC creation system.

Hm, then maybe just add 6 of his highest possible spells at the most?

-YRUSirius

 

[I'm A Banana]

I remember making up NPCs and Monsters in 3rd Edition started to feel like a chore. I know, to each his own, but that's one thing 4E did much better.

There's a few different reasons that 3e monsters were kind of a chore to create, and they didn't directly have to deal with class levels. After all, it was optional -- you didn't HAVE to add any class levels to anything, if you didn't want to.

I'm into simple monster creation, and I hope they preserve that option, but they don't need to get rid of classed monsters to do that. After all, adding a class to a monster in 4e was pretty easy -- pick some powers, and you're good. I wouldn't mind something that easy for 5e, either.

 

[Ratskinner]

What if class levels on monsters only have to add class features, and not much else?

Say you take a goblin and want to add 5 levels of the fighter class. You look at the fighter advancement table and see that a level 5 fighter got like 4-5 class features in total. You add those 4-5 features.

<snippage>

-YRUSirius

I'm pretty sure that would be okay with most of us who object to "monster levels". I though 4e did monsters, well, though.