Plots in a Sandbox

[Cyronax]

...and by "Plots" I mean goals that the NPCs have.

I have some questions about this.

1. Is it bad to have too many plots?

2. How many plots should you have going on?

3. Does the scale/scope of those plots make a difference?

4. Should those plots sit in stasis until the PCs come along?

I agree with ExploderWizard and FBA827 on pretty much all their points. I also run a mostly sandbox-style for my campaigns.

One key thing I require from my players in the lead up to my current and past campaign was that they provide me some concrete details for where their PCs come from, along with just generic background details.

I use much of what the players give me to create new areas for exploration in the campaign world. This approach works best in a Points of Light setting, which makes it easier for characters to create whole cloth towns or organizations related to their characters. I then take what I was initially planning, mix it with their information, and then I synthesize it all for a baseline starting point to a POL world and a sandbox campaign.

C.I.D.

 

[Snoweel]

Just a little disclaimer for those advocating more hooks than the PCs will be able to resolve...

Like all entertainment media, one way that RPGs can (and some would say should) differ from real-life is that quite often IRL events transpire - we encounter situations of dramatic conflict - that are never satisfactorily resolved.

IRL, we all have our little sagas that are never resolved. They remain frustrating mysteries that we push to the backs of our minds and die wondering about. Unsolved mysteries don't make for good drama unless they're ultimately solved. Never finding out is extremely dissatisfying and these kinds of situations aren't part of successful entertainment except in the case where the audience does know the truth while the character does not.

I generally try to keep loose threads to a minimum in my games, and where they remain unresolved I usually tell the players what their characters never knew because one of the attractions of entertainment media (including RPGs) is the closure we so rarely get IRL.

 

[Umbran]

1. Is it bad to have too many plots?

It is possible to have to many NPCs with too many goals - it risks having the actions of NPCs outweigh the actions of PCs in your campaign world. Specifically, if you have too many NPCs with goals that will end in Terrible Things Happening, then you can have so many that the PCs cannot stop them all, and the world goes into the dumpster whatever the PCs do.

2. How many plots should you have going on?

That depends largely on how the party likes to play. How much stuff do you need to catch and keep the PCs attention?

3. Does the scale/scope of those plots make a difference?

See both of the above. If you have lots of BIG Plots, the PCs will look small by comparison, and that's not usually much fun for the players. Also, if the players don't give a hoot about plots on one or more scales or scopes you set, then that material is largely wasted.

4. Should those plots sit in stasis until the PCs come along?

In the perfect sandbox, no. The universe exists, and goes on of its own accord. But I'm not a purist - not big on worrying about whether a game is a perfect sandbox.

If you are buried under prep-work, having some things in stasis can be handy. Pre-prepped and mostly ready to fire when you need content is useful to keep up a campaign's pacing.

 

[Sadrik]

I run a sandbox game. I throw as many threads as I can at my players. I usually write up a large list of bullet points for a game and then I throw them at them, some they will not discover, some they will not explore, some they will and some I know they will go after because they are urgent or have a timeline attached to them. For instance gnolls banding together and taking tribute on the caravan routes may be enticing but a demon who wants a child sacraficed before ten days is up, is more urgent. Use the timer trick to get your players motivated and in the action.

Also try and get your players to buy into the sandbox style and have them jot down notes so that you do not have to rehash everything. Many details can be on the fly and those details can be lost between weeks. So run fast loose and get your random enounter charts out. I love sandbax gaming it is so freeing!

 

[Ariosto]

1. Is it bad to have too many plots?

Why else call them "too many"?

2. How many plots should you have going on?

Of how many can you keep track?

3. Does the scale/scope of those plots make a difference?

The greater the scope, the broader the strokes, I think.

For instance, how many sides were there in the First World War? WW2? It's like the question of how many miles of coastline there are: a 'fractal' complexity that increases as you consider the whole to greater levels of resolution.

4. Should those plots sit in stasis until the PCs come along?

That can create problems in verisimilitude, while practical problems come with tracking the progress of affairs.

"There are eight million stories in the naked city," but, as a practical matter, most of the world lies beyond one's "event horizon". All I know about ExploderWizard or Sadric is what I learn here, and that barely scratches the surface. Of their neighbors, I know nothing.

Large-scale things are pretty familiar, and suggest some sorts of things one is likely to find on a slightly closer look. A vagrant newly wandering into a little frontier town is not likely to know beforehand much of what's going on, unless events have somehow taken on wider -- and more widely recognized -- significance. A native of a big city might know of general trends in violent crime, and even have heard of some particular cases, but that's different from personally facing an attack.

So, one can prepare situations to spring on players in appropriate circumstances. The key to verisimilitude is consistency with what they know. One key to a good wide-open scenario is giving them plenty of opportunities to learn more in advance of choosing their courses.

 

[ExploderWizard]

As far as keeping track of what goes on behind the scenes when the PC's do not get involved, I tend to keep track of anything that may become important later. There may be something going on that the PC's hear a rumor about and decide not to check out. I just make a few notes about the course of events and lay out a rough timeline. It helps the world feel less static if the players decide to get involved at a later date.

Having events transpire and the situation change despite the players direct involvement helps to make the game world a more dynamic place.
Ultimately, the game world exists for the benifit of the PC's. In order to get the players to have thier characters behave as if this was not a known fact they need to understand that the world keeps moving with or without them taking action.

 

[Coldwyn]

I think it´s necessary to differentiate between plots, arcs and tasks when talking about a sandbox. I think there should only be one overarching plot, something to keep it all together. There should be an appropiate number of arcs to advance the plot and a nearly endless number of freeroaming tasks that can be done.

 

[weem]

I think it´s necessary to differentiate between plots, arcs and tasks when talking about a sandbox. I think there should only be one overarching plot, something to keep it all together. There should be an appropiate number of arcs to advance the plot and a nearly endless number of freeroaming tasks that can be done.

Yea, this.

I've been tossing various 'tasks' at my group to see what sticks - I figure anything that sticks (aka, they snatch up and address) are things they want to do - sound fun to them, so it gives me a good idea of what they like. In my case at least, I don't think I will ever have too many of them - I try to make them subtle, and the players know they are free to decide what they want to follow up on. At the same time, I keep within... realistic(?) terms - for example, they aren't so popular that these tasks, quests etc are pouring down on them... they don't need a rolodex or anything

---edit---

Not that my game is necessarily a sandbox game, but I like there to be many options and for the players to be the driving force for the direction of the game.

 

[roguerouge]

Some plots can sit in stasis (bandits picking off the occasional merchant train) and some should not (slow-developing plans to take over the world).

 

[Janx]

It you try to keep too many balls juggling, you will likely start dropping some. Therefore, there's diminishing value in trying to run too many plots.

Furthermore, anything the PCs don't know, doesn't effectively exist. The proof of this is that if you stop running it, the PCs don't notice anything. Thus, running plots the PCs don't know about is pointless. You can instead, invent a plot when the PCs are ready and act as if it existed all along and they've only uncovered it.

If you have too many "bad guy" plots running that the PCs know about, but can only resolve one or two at a time, then the others will be ignored. That in turn means the bad guy will win, or you will have to invent a reason as to why it failed (heroic NPC party). That in turn undermines the PCs doing anything, since they could always just let the NPCs' deal with it. If the Bad guys win, odds are good it will change the game universe dramatically, possibly more than you initially intended. Basically, if you have more bad guys than good guys, the bad guys will ultimately win. Thus if you want to generally maintain the status quo, you need to limit yourself to a small number of concurrent bad guy plots.

There's a temptation to make the sandbox a giant living breathing simulation. The problem is, you are a human, not a computer. The computer has no problem processing the goals and actions of every NPC in the campaign world. A human isn't so good at doing that. Furthermore, we humans tend to be myopic, focussed only on ourselves and our interests (friends, business, enemies, goals). The result is, as players in the game of life, we don't notice all the concurrent sub-plots every NPC is running anyway.

So as a DM, take some short cuts. Only run what you need to keep the PCs interested and busy. The rest doesn't exist until a PC looks at it.