D&D 5E Point Buy vs Rolling for Stats

[Caliban]

What bugs me is that sooner or later "point buy" or "array" posters start referring to "roll for stats" posters as cheaters. Oh wait, that happened on page 1.

Um...It happened in the very first post. The OP suspected his players of inflating their stats. It's kind of why the thread was started in the first place.

I'm sure you would never think of fudging a die roll to get better stats (or just re-rolling until you get "acceptable" stats, whatever that may be). Alas, not everyone shares your sense of ethics when it comes to character generation.

 

[Caliban]

I don't quite understand how point buy stops dump stats. It seems to me that it enables it.

In the sense that there is a limit to how far you can "dump" the stat. For example, you can't choose to have a stat lower than 8 with the 5e point buy rules.

Rolling in order prevents dump stats by definition. You can't dump stat, because you'll get what's rolled.

Sure you can. You look at your stats, and then you pick a class that doesn't need the lowest stat you rolled. It has been "dumped" - not by arranging the stats, but by choosing the class. Just because it takes place at a different point in the creation process doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

"Ooh, I rolled a 5 for Str, but a 17 for charisma. Guess this character is a Warlock or Sorcerer."

I really don't have a problem with other people rolling for stats. It's just not for me. I've tried it a few times and more often than not, I didn't enjoy it.

But - and this is a big "but" - I've spent most of my active playing in Organized Play settings. Living City, Living Greyhaw, Living Arcanis, Pathfinder Society, and Adventurer's League. Rolling is not an option there, point buy is mandated. By this point it seems more natural to me than rolling for stats.

Previous to that, I was a teenager and rolling for stats meant "rolling until you get good stats" in every group I played with.

 

[Jacob Marley]

Um...It happened in the very first post. The OP suspected his players of inflating their stats. It's kind of why the thread was started in the first place.

There's a difference between the general and the specific. The OP was asking a question specific to his players. Likewise, my reply to the OP was specific to what I do. Boilerplate, by definition, is general. [MENTION=6801845]Oofta[/MENTION] used C.H.E.A.T. in his boilerplate reply. In fairness to [MENTION=6801845]Oofta[/MENTION], in his reply to me he seemed genuinely surprised that the term C.H.E.A.T., which he viewed as tongue-in-cheek, could come across as condescending. I'll take him at his word that he'll change his boilerplate to a neutral term. That I respect.

Now, can we talk about the cool stories that emerge from our games? I'll be glad to share stories of how my rolled stat characters are battling the forces of Iuz, and you can regale me your tales of heroism!

 

[Oofta]

It's true, there are a near limitless number of variations used by those of us who roll stats. There is no simple acronym that will account for every permutation. However, the term C.H.E.A.T. has a very obvious negative connotation. And in the seven years I've been on these boards, I cannot recall ever seeing it used by someone who rolls for stats; only by those who prefer other stat generation methods. That's what makes it condescending. 4d6DL works just fine.

Except my point is that most people don't use 4d6DL. Maybe Enhanced Generation And Dispersal System? Egads! Fantasy Attribute Rolling Template ... wait ... that's not going to work.

End of the day? It's a silly acronym and I make it clear that it is not literally cheating (as the OP indicates his players are probably doing).

I have no problem with people that use variations that effectively guarantee higher stats. I think random results are inherently unfair. Life is not fair, that doesn't mean our game can't be closer to fair.

[EDIT] BTW I'm still thinking about the acronym.

 

[schnee]

Oh for sure. I abandoned every random chargen system decades ago. DND was the outlier for me.

I have zero interest in any random chargen system.

But Traveler was so damn fun.

'Oh this one is looking good. Oh, that's great. Oh...died. Gotta start over'

My favorite was the one who rolled Jack of All Trades 6... in a system that gets 2, maybe 3 max. I could basically fake my way through anything short of open heart surgery.

Good times, good times.

 

[Tony Vargas]

But Traveler was so damn fun.

'Oh this one is looking good. Oh, that's great. Oh...died. Gotta start over'

Yeah, but it had that RPG attached to it. ;P

 

[neogod22]

I've been playing D&D and other RPGs for 25 years starting with 2e. Sure I rolled stats, and rolled them for various other games as well. You know why I prefer point buy? 1. it saves time. 2. you don't have to make stupid rules for people to get good rolls. 3. everyone can play what they want to play, because there will be no way they won't be locked out of a class for not having stats (Paladins were the worst). 4. You don't get overpowered characters. 5. No need to roll 6 characters because the 1st 5 were s#itty. 6. you really won't need a session 0, because it only takes a few mins to make a character.

Just because something is tradition, doesn't always make it good. Which is why all of you "rollers" are using special house rules for your rolling and not a single one of you are rolling straight 3d6 and take the result which is what it's supposed to be. I have literally sar at a table, asked everyone what they were playing and made a character in 10 mins and was ready to play with point buy on multiple occasions. It's just simple.

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[cbwjm]

Solution 3: ask how stats are going to be generated when you are asked to join, before the session zero. If forced stat randomness is the only option and the DM will not budge, politely decline and start up you own campaign. It's what I would do.

But this just goes back to my post from the first page. Some people like rolling. That's fine there is not one true way. I, and many others don't.

I get tired of the "If you were a better/more mature person you would role dice". Give me a break.

I get tired of both sides arguing that their way is the proper way. I like to roll, you like to use point buy. Neither way is better, neither way is worse. Neither is right or wrong, they're just different. People on both sides can get a bit of a "holier than thou" attitude when talking about their preferred method.

 

[cbwjm]

I've been playing D&D and other RPGs for 25 years starting with 2e. Sure I rolled stats, and rolled them for various other games as well. You know why I prefer point buy? 1. it saves time. 2. you don't have to make stupid rules for people to get good rolls. 3. everyone can play what they want to play, because there will be no way they won't be locked out of a class for not having stats (Paladins were the worst). 4. You don't get overpowered characters. 5. No need to roll 6 characters because the 1st 5 were s#itty. 6. you really won't need a session 0, because it only takes a few mins to make a character.

Just because something is tradition, doesn't always make it good. Which is why all of you "rollers" are using special house rules for your rolling and not a single one of you are rolling straight 3d6 and take the result which is what it's supposed to be. I have literally sar at a table, asked everyone what they were playing and made a character in 10 mins and was ready to play with point buy on multiple occasions. It's just simple.

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Except that isn't what it's supposed to be. That was how it was done in some versions of the game and it hasn't been a tradition since at least AD&D which introduced multiple methods for rolling abilities. 5e has the 4d6 drop 1 method listed as the standard rolling method or you might like to use the the point buy method or the standard array. Every edition has had different rolling methods that you can use for different situations. Rolling your stats may have been the tradition, but a single standard way of rolling has not been.

 

[Oofta]

I get tired of both sides arguing that their way is the proper way. I like to roll, you like to use point buy. Neither way is better, neither way is worse. Neither is right or wrong, they're just different. People on both sides can get a bit of a "holier than thou" attitude when talking about their preferred method.

I can see how my Creative Heroic Enhanced Attribute Template acronym* might have been misinterpreted, but all I've ever stated is that I prefer point buy and why.

I do take exception to people telling me that if I were a real role player I'd roll for stats, and be happy with what the dice gods hath wrought.

Or when they make blatantly false statements like "stats don't matter". They may or may not affect your personal enjoyment of the game, but it's obvious that stats have an effect on how effective a character will be from a statistical standpoint.

*How about Fantasy Updated Dice Generation Enhancement (F.U.D.G.E.) instead?