D&D 5E Point Buy vs Rolling for Stats

[Caliban]

Oofta and I are each doing the exact same thing: arguing our case in this debate.

A neutral observer could not see two people debating and declare that only one of the two was at fault on the grounds that he is engaging in debate!

Conclusion: you are not a neutral observer.

It's okay to take sides in the debate. It's not okay to pretend to be a neutral observer when you are not.

Deflect! Deflect!

 

[Arial Black]

Deflect! Deflect!

Wow! I thought we had to be 18 to post on this site.

Sticking your fingers in your ears and shouting, "LA LA LA, I CAN'T HEAR YOU!" is not a credible debating position.

 

[Caliban]

Wow! I thought we had to be 18 to post on this site.

Sticking your fingers in your ears and shouting, "LA LA LA, I CAN'T HEAR YOU!" is not a credible debating position.

Sure it is. It's what you've been doing for the last 100 pages. Repeating the same arguments over and over again and trying to change the subject when you get called out.

 

[Tony Vargas]

Deflect! Deflect!

[Russian accent]"Aye K'pt'n, raising deflectors ..."

[emotionless]"No effect against our shields, captain. Sensors show they are using facts. We should be safe for the moment..."

You don't know if the game is based around the array, 12, or some other number. You are making assumptions and nothing more.

Mearls didn't ever come right out and say there were going to be 'crystal clear guidance' about which stat-generation method the game was balanced for, the way he did encounters/day.

But, the standard array is really close to the ranked average of 4d6, and point-buy can build that array, so, it seems like 'balancing around' any one of them would be as balanced as possible for each of the others.

It's just that random would give you more variance around that baseline than point-buy which'd give you more variance than array - all of which are likely dwarfed by other sources of imbalance, anyway, of course.

Rolling stats quite literally cannot break the game.

I've said it before: 5e is not a pane of glass, it's a pile of sand. Same substance, the one breaks easily into sharp shards and can't readily be repaired, the other just gets scattered about a bit and is easily restored to a neat pile.

Yeah, the DM is essentially a janitor in that analogy, I suppose...

 

[Arial Black]

Sure it is. It's what you've been doing for the last 100 pages.

Just like Oofta, among others on both sides of this debate.

Repeating the same arguments over and over again

Just like Oofta.

and trying to change the subject when you get called out.

Pointing out that your accusation is false is not 'changing the subject' any more than you did by making absurd accusations.

You: Posting support for your side of the debate is just spouting propaganda!

Me: Doesn't that mean that posts supporting the other side are equally 'just spouting propaganda'?

You: STOP CHANGING THE SUBJECT!

Me: ...??? I'm just replying to your....

You: DEFLECT! DEFLECT!

 

[Caliban]

Just like Oofta, among others on both sides of this debate.



Just like Oofta.



Pointing out that your accusation is false is not 'changing the subject' any more than you did by making absurd accusations.

Make up your mind - are my statements false, or are they true and you are trying to deflect blame by claiming the other side does the same thing?

Both can't be true.

 

[Oofta]

In post #80, Oofta wrote, "If forced stat randomness is the only option and the DM will not budge, politely decline and start up you own campaign. It's what I would do".

Oofta states that he would rather have no game at all than play 5E where the DM's character creation rules involve rolling stats. I've stated that although I prefer rolling I will use point-buy if rolling is not allowed, because that is better than not playing.

Yet YOU characterise what I write as 'complaining about point-buy' while not saying a thing about Oofta 'complaining about rolling'.

YOU accuse me of 'spouting propaganda' for extolling the virtues of rolling, and giving my opinion on why I like rolling and don't like point-buy.

Yet YOU say nothing at all when Oofta extols the virtues of point-buy, or when he gives his opinions about why he likes point-buy and hates rolling so much he refuses to play in a game that uses it!

Why the double standard?

This was in response to a a post where you gave the option of punching someone in the face or suck it up like a big boy and still play. You were basically stating that if you were mature enough, rolling is awesome.

I also went on to explain in a later post that I have a lot of options to play, more than I have time. So for me, no it's not "rather have no game at all".

Just like I won't go to any more sushi-only restaurants because there are plenty of other options available, I won't play in a game where rolling is the only option. That doesn't make sushi bad, it just means I don't like raw fish and horseradish.

You like random results, more power to you. But if you're going to quote me, try to keep it in context.

 

[Maxperson]

Even if they are fudging their rolls, it's immaterial. If someone has a rolling standard that allows a 3-18 range, they're implicitly saying they don't think a set of rolls like 18-18-16-15-14-14 is game breaking. If they thought it was game-breaking, they would use a system where there was 0% chance of it happening, not 0.1%.

It's not immaterial. Cheaters are bad for the game. It's not that their stats break the game. It's that they broke the social contract that says that you get what you roll.

 

[Maxperson]

Once again, I've never said all characters should be "equal". I want PCs to have an even starting point. That's not a pipe dream, it's a simple fact that point buy comes closer to achieving that goal than semi random ability scores.

So where is that starting point? If it's after character creation when game play begins, then you are not giving your PCs an even starting point, so an even starting point is a pipe dream. If the starting point is the rules for character creation, then rolling has an even starting point as well. 4d6 minus the lowest for everyone is an absolutely even starting point.

 

[Maxperson]

Glad you agree with me then.

If you want me to think that you are not a troll, then making a trollish statement is not the way to do it. You understand English, and I don't think you're retarded, so you understood definition provided. So long as rolling is involved, the situation was not unsatisfactory or unacceptable to [MENTION=47207]Ariel[/MENTION] Black. He can hate point buy all he wants and he'll still find the stat generation rules satisfactory and acceptable, so no complaining is possible.