D&D 5E Point Buy vs Rolling for Stats

[Lanefan]

For what it's worth, this thread is the troll. Just when you think it's finally dead...

Come on, guys and gals - only another 100 posts until the mighty 2K!

You can do it!!!

 

[OB1]

Now 99


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[Oofta]

Now 99


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98.

 

[the Jester]

My policy on stat generation in my game is simple: Roll the dice, then show me the array. If I find it boring, you get to re-roll. Boring might mean your stats are too bad, too average, OR too good.

 

[MoominT]

Ok I read the OP and the first few and then skipped the rest!

You can not win, everyone has different feelings and thoughts so point buy in the book is the only way to go! its in the rules so no one can disagree.

Personally I hate it, I view it as having a immortal character, I die, scrub out the name put a new one in and hey presto keep going!

Depending on which group I play with we use the following options

Group 1) point buy

Group 2) everyone gets a 18 and rolls 4d6 drops the lowest 5 times and assigns as you like.

Group 3) make up your own stats!

All are full of good friends and all enjoyable games to play but my group 3 friends create the best and most exciting diverse characters. But you could say we are all A**holes because whenever a new player turns up and makes a mega character, its all you go in first your so hard, you open the door you so awesome, you do not need that item you already so tough, the message soon gets through.

 

[Hussar]

Maybe this will help you understand.

You don't need to play D&D.

You don't need to shop at the grocery store.

You don't need a car.

You don't need a job.

Do you really think the fact that you don't need those things is you being told not to have or do them, or even that you shouldn't have or do them?

The statement that you don't need to roll is just letting you know that you don't have to roll stats. It's not a directive not to roll, nor is it even saying that you shouldn't roll.

If we take your four statements as true, factual statements, then the following are true:

1. Since you don't need to to play D&D, then it is not a requirement. Although this one is a bit different from saying that you "don't need to roll". A closer statement would be, "You do not need the 3.5 D&D books to play 3.5 D&D." Meaning that I can play 3.5 D&D perfectly well without the books. Which is true. You can play 3.5 D&D with the SRD and not have a problem.

2. Do don't need to shop at the grocery store means that if the grocery store did not exist, it would be perfectly fine.

3. You don't need a car. Again, since I don't need it, if cars did not exist then it would not matter to me.

4. You don't need a job. Presumably I have income from somewhere else and if I never got a job or jobs did not exist, then I would never notice.

The problem is, you're trying to insist on a single interpretation of a word that has a somewhat fuzzier meaning. I'm not saying you're wrong in your interpretation, just that there are more than one interpretations.

 

[Maxperson]

If we take your four statements as true, factual statements, then the following are true:

1. Since you don't need to to play D&D, then it is not a requirement. Although this one is a bit different from saying that you "don't need to roll". A closer statement would be, "You do not need the 3.5 D&D books to play 3.5 D&D." Meaning that I can play 3.5 D&D perfectly well without the books. Which is true. You can play 3.5 D&D with the SRD and not have a problem.

2. Do don't need to shop at the grocery store means that if the grocery store did not exist, it would be perfectly fine.

3. You don't need a car. Again, since I don't need it, if cars did not exist then it would not matter to me.

4. You don't need a job. Presumably I have income from somewhere else and if I never got a job or jobs did not exist, then I would never notice.

The problem is, you're trying to insist on a single interpretation of a word that has a somewhat fuzzier meaning. I'm not saying you're wrong in your interpretation, just that there are more than one interpretations.

You don't need a store since you can grow food. You can always go homeless and beg, so there is no need for jobs. You can walk and/or take public transportation, so a car is not needed. I can live life just fine with no D&D. None of those are needs.

You don't need to roll stats, or even know what those stats are, but NPCs must have stats or they would be dead.

 

[Hussar]

You don't need a store since you can grow food. You can always go homeless and beg, so there is no need for jobs. You can walk and/or take public transportation, so a car is not needed. I can live life just fine with no D&D. None of those are needs.

You don't need to roll stats, or even know what those stats are, but NPCs must have stats or they would be dead.

But, it doesn't say they don't need to roll. It flat out states that they don't need stats AT ALL. It doesn't need to say you don't need to roll because, in 5e, you never need to roll. And, just like all your examples, since you don't need it, not having it doesn't really matter.

Now, to be fair, I get what you're saying. Like I said earlier, this is just a sidebar of the whole "rules as physics" debate, which will never be resolved. It's a personal style issue. For me, that fisherman catches fish every day, not because of anything to do with the game mechanics, but, because I'm the all powerful author of the setting and what I say goes. Did that fisherman catch a really big fish today? Yup, he did. Jumped right into his boat. Didn't even need to use a net. How do I know that? Because, as the DM, I get to do that.

I neither want nor need mechanics to deal with events that do not involve the players. If I did, I'd play a different system where the system is actually designed to do this sort of thing. But, I don't. I play D&D and in D&D, AFAIC, anything that happens off camera is 100% DM fiat and freeform play.

 

[Hriston]

The claim is that you can't pick number, because you can't control which specific numbers come up.

I've already shown how rolling does give you some control over which numbers come up. When you pick 4d6 drop lowest, you're picking a specific range and frequency of numbers. When you pick standard array, you're picking a different range of numbers, and the frequency of the specific numbers in the array is 100%. When you pick point-buy, you're picking the same range of numbers as standard array, but any number in that range can come up depending on which other numbers you pick. The difference isn't between absolute control and no control. Each method gives you a relative degree of control. The difference is that with standard array and point-buy, you can see the specific resulting numbers before choosing the method of generation, so you know exactly what you're getting, relying on the character's karma, so to speak. With rolling, you're relying on the character's fortune, which is different than it being completely out of control. An adventurer has the fortune to have abilities generated by 4d6 drop lowest. A commoner may have the fortune to have abilities generated by another rolling method. (My preference being 3d{2,3,3,4,4,5}.)

You're the one who asked what happens when you roll the exact array numbers. It's not my fault if that's so incredibly unlikely to happen to me that it's not even worth consideration.

Since no specific result of rolling is likely enough to be worth consideration, you might as well choose the standard array.

Again, you're taking the position that the designers are stupid. The rules talk about rolling stats for NPCs. The ONLY method of rolling is 4d6-L. Unless the designers are so brain dead that they failed to let the DM know to come up with a rolling method, 4d6-L is the method that they are talking about. it's all there is and not one inkling that the DM needs to come up with a different method. I for one don't think the designers are that stupid, so 4d6-L is what the DMG NPC rules are talking about.

Did you ever consider that the designers assumed DMs aren't brain-dead and can come up with whatever dice-rolling method that suits them and their campaign?

 

[neobolts]

Wow, this thread has gone over 1900 posts at this point. So I'm here to help.

Point buy is better than rolling. If you roll bad your character sucks. If another player rolls bad your ally sucks. Don't risk it, use point buy.

Glad I was here to clear things up.