Points of Light and the Forgotten Realms

[Sunderstone]

If advancing the setting is a slap in the face of fans, FR has been doing this since the first novels came off the presses with Doug Niles' Moonshaes series. The Time of Troubles once before took away PCs' accomplishments.

I disagree. Doug Niles original Moonshae Trilogy didnt alter much at all. Matter of fact I was surprised with the second trilogy taking place years later. These novels were a perfect companion to the setting IMHO. It gave you the feel of what it was like to be in the Moonshaes and left it intact for you to mess with.

Sembia was once designated as a preserve for DMs to make it whatever they wanted, then that rug was pulled out from under folks when they changed their mind and decided to make an official Sembia. And it has been a longtime complaint of the setting that PCs only get to clean up after NPC mover-and-shakers get done with things. It's not new.

I also remember when they said Sembia was left for DMs to use, etc. This was a major gripe I had with the Realms getting too crowded with super hero NPCs.

WotC would like folks to move up to 4e, they aren't sending in the SWAT teams to make gamers do it. WotC would like existing FR-fans to come along with the 4e FRCS, but they aren't going to arm twist people into doing it. There is enough material published out there now that people can keep playing 3.x FR, just like when 3e came out there was enough material out to keep playing AD&D 2nd ed FR.

The atmosphere was what made FR great back with the grey box. IMHO, too many canon alterations from the novels ruined that feel. Even worse is that the heroes of the novels are still around in the games setting sourcebooks.
Why couldnt the novels just be novels for the most part with maybe a "Realms Shake Up" occurring only rarely? This would lead to less super heroes running around every area you want to develop further without having to come up with cheesy explanations to "well why cant we get try to get some help from Drizzt, its his neighborhood too" or "why is it every time we stroll through the Dales, Elminster just happens to be out worldwalking?"

Personally, even with 3.5 books coming out for FR, I still set my personal FR in 1358. I just reversed-engineered things.

Thats fine for you. Not so much for me.
I liked FRs "original" atmosphere and open endedness, and changing things every time Joe writes a new novel isnt much fun. The "FR Completist" in me makes me research what happened in the novels I never wanted to read. From there I have to keep tons of papers/text files on what I want to keep from the new altered canon of the novels I had no interest in.

The Silver Marches used to be my favorite area (even before it was known by that name). Now from RAS Drizzt books, its barely recognizable and too busy of an area for me to want to work in.

In a way, I like the fact that they might be "rebooting" the already destroyed FR (thats my current opinion of FR and im entitled to it), but if the novels following 4E are only going to do the same thing again.... well, it will be worthless to me.

A perfect campaign setting is one with just enough open endedness to make you want to springboard your own campaign. Not one that feels like you have to play in someone elses campaign or you have to erase (or "reverse-engineer") parts of canon.

Do settings evolve? sure. Make more sourcebooks for every area or make new areas/continents/kingdoms. Maybe one shakeup every few years. Not with every novel that someone writes.

So yeah, WotC isnt sending SWAT teams out, but unless they change the way they do things (which I doubt) the reboot wont have much value.

 

[Sunderstone]

Horrible WotC, to support their most popular setting. The sheer evil of their mind/wallet control making millions buy the novels. Dirty, dirty heathen monkeys that they are. Pardon me I have run out of hyperbole, maybe everyone could spare some of theirs.

This will go along way in the civility dept. :\

I personally dont care how many millions WotC makes. Im all for the reboot, but if the novels kill the setting for me and maybe alot of others all over again, whats the point?

Based on the RAS tidbit, its the same dog show, just that they are washing the dog this time around.

 

[Arashi Ravenblade]

I kind of like the idea of a points of light type things in FR. Though with all the super characters running around and super groups i wonder what happens.

 

[phadeout]

A perfect campaign setting is one with just enough open endedness to make you want to springboard your own campaign. Not one that feels like you have to play in someone elses campaign or you have to erase (or "reverse-engineer") parts of canon.

Exactly like I said. If they want to shake up the Realms, fine. But they need to stop the Novels + Splat books = Timeline junk. Then I would have respect for a 4E version of the Realms. To know it's finally back in the DM's hands.

I kind of like the idea of a points of light type things in FR. Though with all the super characters running around and super groups i wonder what happens.

I just think this is a funny conversation... Grey Box D&D WAS points of light in darkness. Hell, if you weren't in Waterdeep, you were in "the Wilderness" and the wilderness was full of bad stuff with know one out there to help you.

 

[William Ronald]

I kind of like the idea of a points of light type things in FR. Though with all the super characters running around and super groups i wonder what happens.

I suspect not all would survive the years intact. There might be examples of heroic sacrifices, with some great heroes mourned and respected for their deeds -- inspiring new heroes. Some groups may splinter, disband or be destroyed or even merge with other groups. New groups may emerge, perhaps with specific causes or interests beyond mere survival.

At this point, no one knows what will happen to the Realms. However, I imagine that a LOT of thought is going into it. We will know in little less than a year.

 

[Green Knight]

Nevermind that if it is set 100 years in the future, a lot of those characters will be dead and buried simply due to old age. Humans, Half-Elves, Halflings, Half-Orcs, would all be dead from old age.

 

[Dire Bare]

Or even better the blackmail of "buy Expedition to Greyhawk Ruins or they will never publish anything Greyhawk again".

I know you are intentionally throwing around a lot of hyperbole, but are you serious with this statement?

WotC never stated or implied any sort of "blackmail" with Expedition to the Ruins of Greyhawk. One of the authors stated that WotC was looking at the release of this product as a test for potential interest in Greyhawk products. Not their only reason for releasing it by a longshot, and a far cry from, "Buy this product or else! It's cement overshoes for Greyhawk here!"

You may or may not be sorta joking here, but I've seen this sentiment spring up before and it just boggles me the ignorance of it.

 

[grimslade]

I know you are intentionally throwing around a lot of hyperbole, but are you serious with this statement?

WotC never stated or implied any sort of "blackmail" with Expedition to the Ruins of Greyhawk. One of the authors stated that WotC was looking at the release of this product as a test for potential interest in Greyhawk products. Not their only reason for releasing it by a longshot, and a far cry from, "Buy this product or else! It's cement overshoes for Greyhawk here!"

You may or may not be sorta joking here, but I've seen this sentiment spring up before and it just boggles me the ignorance of it.

Sorry for the sidetrack: The fact is that other than the Living Greyhawk Gazetteer at the very beginning of 3.0, Expedition is the only other product published for the Greyhawk setting by WotC. 7 years between products is not exactly strongly supporting the setting. I think Forgotten Realms published more than two products over the course of 3.X. I never heard an FR author say buy this book to send a message. Oh wait, one did. I can't remember who but it was to push for more fluff/crunch ratio in FR books. Not really the same tho.

My point in this whole exercise is that the only way Forgotten Realms stays in one static form forever is if the setting is retired like Planescape, Spelljammer, Dark Sun and now Greyhawk. They could be resurrected at anytime, well you need true res for Dark Sun and Spelljammer.
Unfortunately, the novel side of FR brings in much more bacon than the RPG side. Yes, they do support each other, but the large number of FR novel readers don't buy RPG books. The CS is now an add-on to the novel line.

 

[freyar]

Well, there's a lot being said in all these posts, so I'll only add what others aren't already saying. My question:

If the core setting is going to be "points of light," shouldn't the other settings be alternatives to points of light? Something for people who like a different kind of campaign? Or is the idea that FR will be representative of the default setting and Eberron will be the different one? I am a little confused about that.

Edit: I've just started a thread and poll here on a more general discussion of settings, but I think it applies to the FR discussion quite a bit, potentially.

 

[The Grumpy Celt]

The Forgotten Realms Setting getting new materials is a kick in the balls?

No. A new book on, say, Cormyr is not a kick in the pants.

A new book that is (Forgotten Realms)x(Rifts)/(World of Darkness)=(New Forgotten Realms) is a kick in the pants.