Poll/petition Sign the "KEEP DRAGON MAGAZINE' poll/petition

[Seeker95]

The creature threads alone contain more monsters (I suspect) then the hardcovers.

More does not mean better. A lot of the monsters online at ENWorld are as crappy as the monsters online at WotC. The best of the monsters online at ENWorld are those they updated directly from the hardcovers of previous editions.

 

[Seeker95]

Seems the most likely reason to me as well, and I expect it will turn out to be true (it [DI] will not compete well). Which might have some serious long-term effects on our game.

I suspect the opposite. I'll bet the number of subscribers after one year of DI will be many times higher than the number of Dragon subscribers. The overseas subscriptions alone will more than make up for the print-Dragon revenue no longer being earned. If only 30,000 people outside the US (and ZERO people in the US) subscribe to the DI, it will make more *profit* than the print versions in production cost savings alone. No shipping charges. No customs charges. No printing costs. No packaging costs. No print-run calculations. No warehouse storage costs. No rising paper costs and no decreasing paper quality concerns.

Compete? DI, if done only marginally well, will blow the pants off Dragon and Dungeon print magazines in terms of profit.

Then there's the contributor benefits. Authors and artists will get greater exposure globally. Authors won't have to see one-third of their article edited out simply because the editors had to make room for the ads.

From the user perspective, if I lived in Australia (or anywhere besides the US), I would jump all over an online Dragon subscription, because the cost of getting my $6 US-in-the-US magazine is far greater when it has to ship to me. And if I am on the message Boards, I don't have to be almost a month behind the conversations waiting for my magazine.

(I was/am a Dragon subscriber. I love the magazine. But I love it for its content, not its format. If the content is available in the DI, I'll be happy.)

 

[Mercule]

The reason to cancel had nothing to do with the profitability of the magazizes themselves but for some other reason that is not being divulged, which aparently has something to do with the DI and the best I can speculate that they feared that the DI couldn't compete.

Or, it could be that WotC just wanted to put content like that of Dragon and Dungeon online as part of their Digital Initiative. They have two options: 1) Build the content from scratch and come up with a new brand for it, or 2) leverage existing brand identities they already own and draw upon an established talent pool.

Please tell what complete freakin' idiot would choose door number one?

WotC did not discontinue the Paizo license because they hate the average gamer. They did not do it because they secretly sneer at the impoverished gamers w/o Internet access. They did not do it because they "knew" Paizo would eat them for lunch among the target market. And they did not do it because they have any personal vandetta against you, Russ, Erik Mona, or anyone else.

If I had to guess, I'd say they did it because they felt it would be a bad idea (and I agree) to split their resources in a niche arena and they felt the DI had more business viability than the print.

 

[Arnwyn]

You stare at a computer screen all day long, and are willing to do so for any purpose but reading Dragon online.

For me, at least, I do so only to get paid scads of money, and then dump it as fast as I can at the end of the day. Works for me.

Of course, if Dragon online were free, I'd happily read it online when taking a break at the office, just like I do with ENWorld. Is it going to be? No? Yeah, that's what I thought.

Of course, I also, you know, actually use Dragon for gaming. Go figure. And that means being on the internet is useless to me - it kind of needs to be at the gaming table (obviously). Printing is ridiculously expensive (still can't believe the price of ink these days!) and time-consuming, and certainly brings the value of this DI into question.

Suggesting that reading ENWorld while taking a break at the office and subscribing to the DI for use in a game is the same simply shows that the person making such a laughable suggestion doesn't know what he/she is talking about.


(However, note the above only applies to me - no one else. I have no illusions of my place in any majority, or that my needs are in the best interest of WotC. They know what's better for them than I do, and thus I've never made such a claim - I can only speak for myself.)

 

[DM-Rocco]

Ok... so now we see that you're willing to spend EIGHT HOURS after work "staring at a screen" if it's a hot new videogame, *AND* you read message boards every day (you have quite a few posts- and since most people read a lot more than they post- you're obviously a regular reader here) but the DI, that's just a bridge too far huh?

And yes, I recognize that there is a difference and that reading offline is a more pleasurable experience.

But you and I have both shown that we will read things online for pleasure. If you're willing to spend an hour a day reading ENW posts, but not an hour a day reading the DI, well, that just makes me scratch my head.

I think you just preferred it the old way. Which is fine, and if you had just said that, I wouldn't be prodding you. But you didn't say that. You said "I just can't handle reading online". When in fact, you have proven without a doubt, that you can, and do, daily.

When someone with one post makes that argument, I can roll with it (though even then they were *reading* the boards, they just had never been motivated to post before).

But sorry. In your case, I call shenanigans.

Well, you got me, I am a bit fat phoney.

WAKE UP WILL YA!!!

If you knew me, which you don't, I might play one or two games a year, not every night, basically the only video games I play are the D&D ones, not things like evercrack or wow. Mostly Neverwinter nights and off shoots like Temple of Elemental Evil. So, yes, for a week or two a year, when a new video game comes out I do sit down and play the hell out of it. But even then my eyes get buggy and I have to force myself away from it.

As to posting on ENWorld or even looking at these threads, I do scan them at times, but there are times I don't come on here for months. So you really don't know me when you call me a hypocrite.

Sure, the last week I have had a lot of posts, around 40, but that is a rarity because I wanted to get a feel for those who will miss the magazine and why and I wanted to start an on-line petition. You start something like that, you have to log on a few times a day and see how it is going.

Don't generalize me as a hypocrite. You don't know me or my computer viewing habits.

I will miss the old ways and I prefer that, but I won't go into just a digital on-line viewing format, even if they keep the name and format. It is just too much.

 

[DM-Rocco]

The problem is your poll is self-selecting. You say in the thread title to "sign the 'Keep the Dragon Magazine' poll/petition" Of course most of the people who vote in the poll will be voting for keeping it. Those not interested in keeping the magazines won't bother voting in the poll and won't be interested in signing a petition.

If it makes you feel good, I guess that's fine, but I hope you don't convince yourself that you will actually make any difference with this poll. The only thing that might bring back the magazine is if the DI makes less profit than the print magazines ever did, or if in a few years there is a sea change at WotC and the new leadership realizes that, whether digital or print format, the brand names Dragon and Dungeon are worth restoring to cash in on the recognition they bring.

Isn't that the point of a petition? To have those that want it to stay to gather together and sign something in support?

 

[DM-Rocco]

The man made an online petition... to protest something going online.

Really kind of speaks for itself doesn't it. It's absurd on so many levels.

Look, I can see being against this change. But if you're not letting your feelings be known through the old media you supposedly support, then you're just not going to be heard.

You know, a real petition, a mass influx of physical, paper letters, that sort of thing.

WOTC has made this move because they think paper is the past, and digital the future.

If you respond DIGITALLY to that assumption, don't expect to convince them that paper isn't dead. Only paper can make that point.

Alright then, short of me going to origins to start a "real" petition, what would you suggest then?

For instance, giving you the benifit of the doubt and let's say you are in the supporter catagory of a printed format, if I gave you an address to write a letter to, would you?

 

[DM-Rocco]

Look, I have dozens....hundreds....of pdfs, including of my house rules. I don't read any of them online. They all get printed out. Yet I am willing to read message boards. There is a very, very big difference.

Reading and playing videogames aren't the same thing at all. No more than reading and watching TV are the same thing.

Would it have helped if he had been more explicit and wrote "I can't stand reading huge chunks of text online, supposedly for pleasure, when there are alternative ways I could be spending my time, even if those ways have nothing to do with WotC products"?

I call shenanigans on your response.

That actually sums it up better than I just did, Thanks Crowking. I apologize if my other reply was snippy

 

[The_Gneech]

Quote this to sign on-line petition
I sign this petition to keep Dragon and Dungeon magazine as they are!!!

No PDFs or on-line formats for me!!!

'nuff said.

-TG

 

[DM-Rocco]

I suspect the opposite. I'll bet the number of subscribers after one year of DI will be many times higher than the number of Dragon subscribers.

I'm not sure about that. The magazine is something that you can hold in your hands, you have to buy it if you want the content (or find a illigel pdf or write down notes in store).

How do you think WOTC will handle thew DI from bewing spread around the world in PDF format?

I'm sure they will have something up their sleve, but I think it will be more likely that a few people will buy it and then distribute it to friends for free. I would actually be surprised to see the numbers as higher.