Polymorph and Natural Abilities

[IceBear]

Ok, I was just looking through the PHB errata and saw this:

Page 237 column 1 top: change the sentence that begins Natural abilities include armor to the following:
Natural abilities include armor, natural weapons (such as claws, bite, swoop and rake, and constriction;
but not petrification, breath weapons, energy drain, energy effect, etc.), and similar gross physical
qualities (presence or absence of wings, number of extremities, etc.). A body with extra limbs does not
allow a character to make more attacks (or more advantageous two-weapon attacks) than normal.

Now I know that Polymorph Self has been errataed several times, but I know that there have been two camps on whether or not someone would be able to constrict when Polymorphed into a snake (right Hong? ) and it appears that in this errata constriction is considered a natural ability (even if it is listed as Ex).

IceBear

 

[Pielorinho]

3E is normally great with the object-oriented rules system: you define a supernatural ability vs. a spell-like ability and then you know which spells affect which, for example, or you define a light weapon and then you know how to determine a weapon's penalty for being wielded in the off hand. It's really cool, and is a big change over previous editions (in which charm person had a list of every creature it afected, for example, instead of saying it affected all members of the "humanoid" class).

But in this case, they screwed up. There's no such classification as a "natural" ability, and so we don't know whether improved grab, sprint, pounce, fast healing, damage reduction, etc. are natural abilities.

A comprehensive list of natural abilities would be a great addition to the FAQ, I think.

Daniel

 

[IceBear]

I agree with you, but there are some that believe there are natural abilities in the game (other than movement ones). I think it was Ki Ryn (I apologize if it was not) arguing with myself and hong that you would not get constrict or rake. Here, at last, I see something semi-offical that states they should be considered "natural" for the purposes of this spell.

IceBear

 

[Iku Rex]

...loading
...loading
...automatic Iku Rex polymorph rant successfully initiated

Now I know that Polymorph Self has been errataed several times, but I know that there have been two camps on whether or not someone would be able to constrict when Polymorphed into a snake (right Hong? ) and it appears that in this errata constriction is considered a natural ability (even if it is listed as Ex).

Lol. You haven't actually read the earlier threads on the subject, have you?

This errata does not change anything in the spell regarding constriction. The change is that "attack routines" have been replaced with "natural weapons", and the "a body with extra limbs" sentence have been added. The errata is a messed up attempt to explain that you don't get attack routines. (Compare the errata with the original spell.)

(As an added bonus the version that appears in the second printing has been changed slightly from the errata version. )

However, this errata is irrelevant, since it was re-errataed in Dragon , and then later in Tome and Blood (once again subtly changed). Both these erratas (errata? erratae?) mention "constriction".

The most recent version of polymorph is from the PsiH errata, where both constrict and rake have been removed as examples.

(Confused yet? )

Why you don't get constrict(ex), and why it's inclusion is an error in the earlier "erratas":

• "Constriction" is mentioned as an example of a "natural weapon". It does not fit the definition of a natural weapon, it is not listed with natural weapons in the MM and it does not work (game mechanically) the way natural weapons do.
• Most of the sentence where it appears is copied from AD&D, where "constriction" was a natural weapon of sorts - it is next to "swoop" which doesn't exist in (3rd edition) D&D at all.
• Constrict is listed as an extraordinary ability everywhere it appears in a mosnter description. Since the spell says that you don't get extraordinary abilities, you can't get constrict.
• Skip Williams ("Sage" and co-author of T&B) says that you don't get extraordinary abilities. (He also [mistakenly] believed that constrict is not an extraordinary ability, which, given that he most likely wrote the T&B version, explains a lot.)
• The most recent errata removes it as an example of a natural weapon.

 

[Iku Rex]

There's no such classification as a "natural" ability, and so we don't know whether improved grab, sprint, pounce, fast healing, damage reduction, etc. are natural abilities.

"Natural ability" is defined in the PH (end of the "magic chapter) and in the Monster Manual 2. (The glossary also has an entry, possibly outdated.)

Basically, if an ability is not "extraordinary", "spell-like" or "supernatural", it's "natural". Examples include movement capabilities, natural armor and (possibly) racial bonuses to some skills.

 

[IceBear]

Ah, it was you . I apologize to you Ki Ryn

The thing is, I DO get it (and I even said I knew it had been errata'ed to death so the PHB errata was probably out of date), and I have read the other threads (it was me and hong vs you in the last one)

Anyway, I'm going to stick with constrict being a "natural" ability for this spell as it just makes senses to me, while following the letter of an overly errata'ed spell does not.

See what I was talking about Dan - there are people that believe there ARE natural abilities (other than movement) just because there is a defined term (much like a shield bonus). Spirit vs Letter. Spirit vs Letter.

I only posted this for hong's benefit, in case he hadn't seen that, and not to get into this again because neither of us are going to switch positions on this.

IceBear

 

[Hypersmurf]

Basically, if an ability is not "extraordinary", "spell-like" or "supernatural", it's "natural". Examples include movement capabilities, natural armor and (possibly) racial bonuses to some skills.

And a Lernean hydra's immunity to most forms of damage and quick-regrowing heads

-Hyp.

 

[Iku Rex]

And a Lernean hydra's immunity to most forms of damage and quick-regrowing heads

In some cases you have to assume that they've just forgotten to add a proper descriptor.

 

[Pielorinho]

See what I was talking about Dan - there are people that believe there ARE natural abilities (other than movement) just because there is a defined term (much like a shield bonus). Spirit vs Letter. Spirit vs Letter.

IceBear

I do see what you mean -- and this is why I'd like to see a comprehensive list.

Better yet, though, I'd like to see them rebuild polymorph from the ground up with the new edition, in a way to discourage troll-fighters and enemy-goldfish all the time.

Daniel

 

[IceBear]

I think Polymorph was specifically mentioned by Andy so I suspect there will be a new version in the revised books.

It's just the "game logic" that allows you to turn into a bird and fly like you've always flown but not to turn into a constrictor snake and constrict is flawed, IMHO.

IceBear