D&D 4E Polymorph in 4E?

[F5]

Mike Mearls -- Design game elements for their intended use. Secondary uses are nice, but not a goal. Basically, when we build a monster we intend you to use it as a monster. If we build a feat, it's meant as a feat, not a monster special attack. If we also want to make it a playable character race, we'll design a separate racial write up for it. We won't try to shoehorn a monster stat block into becoming a PC stat block. The designs must inform each other, but we're better off building two separate game elements rather than one that tries to multiclass.

As an example, the a theoretical minotaur PC race write up draws on and evokes the feel of the minotaur monster, but it doesn't simply copy over the rules.

I've heard something to this effect in other venues as well. It seems to imply that monsters will have their own distinct set of abilities; that they wouldn't necessarily have the same feats/special abilities/spell-like abilities that Pcs would.

This leads to my question: how do you think the Polymoprh spell will be handled? It was tricky enough when a monster had a bunch of standardized, reproducible Special Attacks and whatnot...if each monster has a suite of customized abilities, this could get messy. Wouldn't the abilities that a caster is able to assume have to be handled on a creature-by-creature basis, if the "bull rush" ability of the minotaur is distinct from the "bull rush" ability of a Gorgon, is distinct from the "bull rush" ability a PC can buy as a feat/tree? How can you balance something like that?

I'm positive that there will be some kind of shape-changing spell in 4E, and it will probably be called Polymorph. Personally, I suspect that it will only allow picking from a limited menu of forms, as the Summon Monster spells do now. Kind of the direction they've been going in now, with the erratas, anyhow.

Any other thoughts/theories/rumors?

 

[Knight Otu]

I believe that it is safe to say that free-form polymorph is going the way of the dodo. It's notoriously hard to balance and can easily lead to unforeseen consequences (Pun-Pun) even for a DM that tightly reigns in polymorphing. Expect to see single-form or limited-form polymorph spells much like those in the Spell Compendium or Player's Handbook 2 rather than polymorph or polymorph any object.

 

[Li Shenron]

It will be removed from the game entirely.

 

[FreeXenon]

Perhaps if the monsters are basically balanced with characters of an equal level (ECL - CR or what ever) then it shall not be a problem. That would be my preference.

Not having shape changing and polymorph type abilities would be a serious loss to fantasy lovers everywhere.

 

[Frostmarrow]

It will be removed from the game entirely.

I think so too. But I think baleful polymorph can make it and it always turns you into a newt.

 

[fuindordm]

I think so too. But I think baleful polymorph can make it and it always turns you into a newt.

I would be perfectly happy to see a unique polymorph spell for each creature.

 

[Eldragon]

Not having polymorph would be a 4e deal breaker for me, it would be forgotten and ignored. Just like if they stopped using a d20.

Since 4e has a new spell mechanic, it could be that they won't have the problems balancing it.

Also, they have a new system that does not need to be backwards compatible with the old system, so they can come up with a new spell that does the same job, that is easier to use.

The problem with the PHB2 and Spell Compendium polymorph spells is that there are very very limiting, mostly useless, and take many spells to get the job done that 1 spell did before.

I expect in 4e we have a single polymorph spell that scales with Level. The Higher the spell level used, the better creature you can be.

Pure Fantasy, totally made up:
Level 1: Any 1 HD animal.
Level 2: Any 2 HD Animal or vermin.
Level 25: Any 25 HD or less Animal, Vermin, plant, ... Dragon.

 

[Frostmarrow]

I would be perfectly happy to see a unique polymorph spell for each creature.

As long as that creature is a newt.

Joking aside. I agree. I remember a Dungeons & Dragons gamebook where polymorph was used in a wizard duel. You had to chose which creature to turn into to beat the enemy wizard's choice. It was fun. One of my first run-ins with D&D.

 

[Cadfan]

I don't care if the polymorph spell dies a horrible death.

I do care about shapeshifter characters. There needs to be a way to build this character archetype. The Druid Shapeshifter variant is a pretty slick way to do it.

 

[Wolv0rine]

As long as that creature is a newt.

Joking aside. I agree. I remember a Dungeons & Dragons gamebook where polymorph was used in a wizard duel. You had to chose which creature to turn into to beat the enemy wizard's choice. It was fun. One of my first run-ins with D&D.

Whoah, so a D&D gamebook actually cribbed an entire scene from Disney's Sword in the Stone? Merlin and Mabb, duelling polymorphs. Good times, good times...

And, just for the record people... if Polymorph can only turn the target into One thing... it's not polymorphing.