Portable Holes, Orbs, Shields, and Disenchant/Enchant

[MindWanderer]

I don't get the point of any of these things.

- Portable Holes: They don't create an extradimensional space, and they can't be closed when something is in it? So what is it good for, a portable pit trap? For being such a high-level item (19), I just don't get it.

- Orbs: With the exception of the Orb of Sanguinary Repercussions (and that only barely), there doesn't seem to be any reason to actually use any of the orbs as implements. Pack a Magic Orb +X, where X is as high a number as you can afford, and bring along a sack of low-level orbs of whatever other types you want. Get Quick Draw if you need it.

- Shields: Since magic shields don't add to your AC, and using a shield you're not proficient with incurs neither benefit nor penalty, why make magic shields and magic bracers two different things? A shield-using character can use a nonmagical shield with magical bracers just fine, and a non-shield-user can use a magic shield and get its full benefit (though it does take a hand).

- Disenchant Magic Item/Enchant Magic Item: What advantage do these rituals have over stores? Disenchanting gets you Residuum worth the same amount of GP as if you sold the item. Enchanting similarly costs an amount of ritual reagents worth the same as if you'd bought it. With the very rare exceptions of needing a specific item right now, while you're in the dungeon, or running out of ritual components and needing to scrub an item to get residuum, these rituals seem totally worthless.

 

[Jer]

I don't get the point of any of these things.
- Disenchant Magic Item/Enchant Magic Item: What advantage do these rituals have over stores? Disenchanting gets you Residuum worth the same amount of GP as if you sold the item. Enchanting similarly costs an amount of ritual reagents worth the same as if you'd bought it. With the very rare exceptions of needing a specific item right now, while you're in the dungeon, or running out of ritual components and needing to scrub an item to get residuum, these rituals seem totally worthless.

For some people the observation would be reversed - why include rules on buying and selling magic items when the Disenchant/Enchant rituals make those rules useless?

I don't have the books yet, but in the Magic Items write-up they basically said that the Disenchant/Enchant rituals are there to provide alternative means for acquiring magic items in your game. If your table doesn't want to allow buying and selling of magic items, you can use the rituals instead with zero effect on game balance. If you're at a table where buying and selling magic items is a normal part of the economy, then you might not find as much use in these rituals. Depends on the game, depends on the world.

 

[Kraydak]

Portable Hole: It appears that Portable Hole is now better thought of as "Portable Door" (or trap door). It can get you through any barrier thinner than 5'.

Orbs: The same argument also applies to many staffs, rods, holy symbols etc... It is a pity that there is *no* way to become truly proficient in an implement you don't start proficient in (the MC feats let you apply the enhancement bonus/crit dice to MCed powers, but don't allow access to any other magic item powers as I am reading them right now), so no Symbols of Victory/Hope for non-clerics/paladins.

 

[Plane Sailing]

Portable Hole: It appears that Portable Hole is now better thought of as "Portable Door" (or trap door). It can get you through any barrier thinner than 5'.

Which was actually the original purpose of it!

I don't know when it became basically a 10ft bag of holding, but in the olden days its main use was 'instant hole in a wall' kind of stuff.

 

[MindWanderer]

For some people the observation would be reversed - why include rules on buying and selling magic items when the Disenchant/Enchant rituals make those rules useless?

Because 1) Disenchant requires a material component cost (not much, but it's something), 2) Residuum can only be used on rituals, and 3) You can only create items up to your level, but you can buy anything. Disenchant/Enchant are strictly inferior under the default assumptions.

 

[Drakhar]

Because 1) Disenchant requires a material component cost (not much, but it's something), 2) Residuum can only be used on rituals, and 3) You can only create items up to your level, but you can buy anything. Disenchant/Enchant are strictly inferior under the default assumptions.

Actually from the exerpts that have been released you can't "buy anything", you should only be able to buy items upto your level as well as be subject to what the vendor has in stock. Not to mention the markup that merchants charge on magic items, so Enchant is the cheaper solution under default assumptions, not inferior.

 

[glass]

- Shields: Since magic shields don't add to your AC, and using a shield you're not proficient with incurs neither benefit nor penalty

It doesn't? I could have sworn it did in the previews?

- Disenchant Magic Item/Enchant Magic Item: What advantage do these rituals have over stores? Disenchanting gets you Residuum worth the same amount of GP as if you sold the item. Enchanting similarly costs an amount of ritual reagents worth the same as if you'd bought it. With the very rare exceptions of needing a specific item right now, while you're in the dungeon, or running out of ritual components and needing to scrub an item to get residuum, these rituals seem totally worthless.

Your rituals go whereever you do. Magic shops, no so much.


glass.

 

[Kraydak]

Which was actually the original purpose of it!

I don't know when it became basically a 10ft bag of holding, but in the olden days its main use was 'instant hole in a wall' kind of stuff.

OT, but that must be the really olden days: my 1e DMG has the hole as being an extradimensional space.

 

[Victim]

- Orbs: With the exception of the Orb of Sanguinary Repercussions (and that only barely), there doesn't seem to be any reason to actually use any of the orbs as implements. Pack a Magic Orb +X, where X is as high a number as you can afford, and bring along a sack of low-level orbs of whatever other types you want. Get Quick Draw if you need it.

There's a limit to how many daily powers from items you can use each day. Having a zillion low level orbs won't help too much.

Quickdraw doesn't include quick put away, IIRC.

 

[Victim]

OT, but that must be the really olden days: my 1e DMG has the hole as being an extradimensional space.

The portable hole in the winnie the pooh is like the 4e, if IIRC.