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Possible Epic PrC for an Alienist

Someone

Adventurer
I support the not of this world/Cthuluoid theme. Besides the aforementiones Charisma penalties, consider the following alternative powers:

- Can panic other creatures with a gaze attack
- Can become himself a writhing mass of tentacles (trascend form?)
- Causes minor disruption in space and time with his only presence (flavor only, things change position and causes small time loops)
- It´s 1:25 here, so I can´t think on more of them. ;)
 

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Cheiromancer

Adventurer
How about a little brainstorming about far realms themed class abilities that aren't too overpowered, won't make the character unplayable, but will add a nice lovecraftian flavor to the prestige class? Here's a few to get started:

Aberrant defence: Whenever the metagnostic receives damage, the twisted energies of the far realms flows through his body, warping it into a hideous mockery of itself. The metagnostic gains a +5 natural armor bonus to AC due to the toughening and twisting of the flesh. The transformation lasts for one round per point of damage sustained. Damage inflicted while transformed will extend the duration of the transformation at the rate of one round per hit point inflicted. (inspired by aberrate in the BoVD)

Power of Nightmares: Each night the metagnostic can choose whether or not to draw power from the nightmarish world of the far realms. If he chooses to draw power, he is affected as by a nightmare spell, except that he may prepare spells the next day normally. If he chooses to undergo restful sleep (or meditation, if the metagnostic does not sleep), he receives a number of negative levels equal to his class level. These negative levels never result in level drain and do not stack with themselves, but cannot be removed except by exposure to a far realms nightmare.

Horrific Casting: It is unnerving to watch a metagnostic work magic. Each time the metagnostic successfully casts a spell, onlookers within 30 ft. must make a will save (DC 10 + spell level) or be shaken for one round.

I like Alien Antipathy and Alien Attunement as well.
 
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KingCroMag

First Post
Any chance we could see the other prestigue class being developed (the transformational pseudonatural one)?
This will give us a better idea of what you are working with.
-Kcm
 

Gez

First Post
In the Fiend Folio is a race originating from wizards having been to the Far Realms, and having been twisted by it, the Kaorti. They become alienists as soon as possible, but given that they are already outsider, the book says they gain the (non-epic) pseudonatural template instead of the transcendance.
 

grodog

Hero
To further Someone's ideas, I've always considered the Displacement power/spell to be a warp in space/time, and to be an unnatural/Lovecraftian effect. You might make that a feature of the class, and an early one, then build on it (perhaps adding Murlynd's Void [from module EX2] and a sphere of annihilation-like effect later down the line. You might also consult the minor/major malevolent effects the 1e DMG artifacts listings, which are rife with ideas and ways that nature is warped around super-magical objects (and perhaps beings). There was a short adventure in Dungeon many years ago set in a non-Euclidean environment; it included a quick three page intro to how non-Euclidean geometry works in game play: that's the kind of warping I'm talking about, for which Displacement is a simple taste of things to come.

Perhaps Mostin also may have to step through some sort of attunement/transition period, over the course of several levels (something like 12-17, with little impact at the beginning and the ends of the scale). Further, throughout this transitional period, give Mostin growing pains: wild/unexpected effects creep into his magic, personality, etc.; these are things that he needs to accept/change/work through/overcome. I'm thinking of a gradual shift in three columns of powers/effects: in column A, Mostin gains powers in the PrC; for example, as form becomes a meaningless concept to Mostin, he may gain Shapechange as an at will ability (although you may have that as a prereq too; I can't tell since ENWorld's down again). This may be a give-and-take progression instead of a series of linearally-increasing powers. Perhaps Mostin gains some powerful abilities early on, but "realizes" later that they were meaningless, or are otherwise rendered useless by virtue of new insights into how reality _really_ works. Or, for sake of DM sanity, the abilities may just accumulate with the levels ;->

In column B, side effects related to the natural world increase in scope and effect, as Mostin "detunes" from Wyre's natural order. The effects would begin with Mostin personally, and then extend into his surrounding "non-living" environment, and then perhaps begin to impact other living creatures, especially including Green-attuned NPCs like druids, feys, etc. (in addition to Ortwin, dont' forget Mostin's recent apprentice as well as all of the feys in Qithan [sp?]). They may culminate in effects on his all of his surrounding environs, including the Astral/Ethereal/Shadow/etc. planes. Nwm may grow to see Mostin as the largest and worst blight on the Green, even worse than if Graz'zt himself should appear in Wyre (since Graz'zt, at least, is grounded in Wyre's cosmology, which Mostin will eventually transcend; perhaps in time the Ancient would be the only creature that could be more alien than Mostin?).

In column C, Mostin suffers gradually decreasing side effects from being exposed to the raw energies of the Far Realms which demonstrates his increasing control over such alienness, his revelatory acceptance of the paradoxical nature of everything, etc. as he gains attunement to the Far Realms. Column C would then step through a series of effects similiar to and perhaps based on or related to the powers gained in Column A. That said, though, this is where the majority of Mostin's personal growing pains should be based: sure, in Column B he'll have all sorts of consequences to the natural world occuring all around him, but that's just the price you pay; in the way that I envision column C, that's where Mostin's psyche, thought patterns, etc. are scrambled and rerouted every level as new revelatory insights wash over and through him (perhaps with visible effects in his surrounding environment, too: there's no reason that thoughts that have never been thought before couldn't cause physical and magical manifestations; "let there be light" being just one possible example among many...). For example, as time becomes a mere perceptual tool vs. a rigidly-bound stricture, Mostin may lose himself in reverie, respond to questions and conversations that occurred in the past or that he perceives may occur in the future (sort of like a cross between a Vampire antidiluvian, elven reverie, and the flashbacks from Highlander---though flash-forwards, and flash-sideways [where he experiences something based on space where he's been but he wasn't there at that time, for example] would be very appropriate, and also quite dangerous: if Mostin fails to master his perceptual self, he may lose his essential self and identity while experiencing creation all at once....

Finally, detach Mostin from his home plane. Sure, he has been an Outsider for a little while now, but he's still very much a Wyrish figure in tone, attitude, spirit, mentality (though that has been shifting a little, viz-a-viz his growing similarities to Eadric, taking on a fey apprentice), etc. Push him to change. Make him homeless, at the _planar level_, until he has completed his "becoming," to steal from Jason Ironheart's transition in the Babylon 5 episode "Mind War" (see the Lurker's Guide at http://www.midwinter.com/lurk/countries/us/guide/006.html for a synopsis if you're not a fan). Only then will he gain "peace" on the path that he has chosen....

Some of this may sound a bit harsh, and that's not my intent: I don't want to punish Dan or Mostin for as his character's powers increase. This just feels most right and proper to me, in terms of pushing the development of Mostin's PC as far as possible in the directions which he has already begun to tread. (Ironically, in my thoughts here, Mostin's PrC requires more strucutre and rigidity than does Eadric's...).
 


Sep,

Do you have a version of the Metagnostic PrCl that is to your liking? May we see it?

Its still in-development. I'm building it up, a piece at a time. Here's what I have so far:

Far Realm Naturalization (Ex): The metagnostic has a natural affinity with the Far Realm which renders him resistant to any spells and spell-like effects that would normally affect any creature not native to that plane (such as banishment). Furthermore, due to the time that the metagnostic has spent contemplating the nature of the Far Realm, he is no longer subject to its tendency to render visitors insane, nor do his spells suffer the usual chance of Wild Magic effects. See the Manual of the Planes (p. 212) for more details.

(This is unchanged so far)

Insane Charisma (Ex): The metagnostic adds his class level to all Charisma Checks, and to all Bluff, Diplomacy, Gather Information and Innuendo Skill Checks he makes when dealing with natives of the Far Realm. His increasing detachment from conventional reality means that the applies an equal penalty to all such Skill checks when dealing with creatures who are not native to the Far Realm.

(Extended to include negative modifier to all non-Far Realm creatures. I figure that this is a pretty self-balancing class ability now. In terms of planar bindings, it also pushes the character away from conventional outsiders towards pseudonatural ones - note that charisma checks can be very important in the binding process)

Dreadful Summons (Ex): Due to his prolonged contact with and exposure to Far Realm entities, once per day, when the metagnostic casts a summon monster spell, he may choose to summon an epic pseudonatural creature (see the pseudonatural template in the Epic Level Handbook) in place of the normal creature. Such a summoning requires the use of a spell slot nine levels higher than the spell’s actual level: e.g. if summon monster I is prepared as a tenth-level spell, the metagnostic may summon an epic pseudonatural version of any creature on the summon monster I list.

(Restricted to 1/day. Increased spell level to +9. At 40th level, Mostin could conceivably summon epic pseudonatural creatures from the summon monster VIII) list (lillend, succubus, cornugon, greater elemental) - but at this level (summoned monster = CR 25-26), I don't think it's a problem at all.)

Pierce the Veil of False Reality: (Su): Starting at second level, the metagnostic gains the ability to perceive the pseudonatural currents which suffuse conventional reality. He must attune himself (a full-round action) in order to achieve this, but after so doing benefits from the effects of foresight (as the ninth level sorcerer/wizard spell) for ten minutes. The metagnostic can use this ability once per day at 2nd level, plus one additional time per day every five levels thereafter (7th, 12th, 17th etc.).

(Reduced from 10 min/level to 10 min)

Unnatural Aura (Ex): From second level, as his alienness begins to make itself manifest, the metagnostic always elicits an Initial NPC Attitude of unfriendly from feys, animals, plants, vermin and beasts. At sixth level, elementals, humanoids, monstrous humanoids, giants and magical beasts are included in the list of creatures who react in this way to the metagnostic. At 10th level, it extends to dragons and shapechangers, and at 14th level to all creatures except outsiders who are themselves native to the Far Realm.

(New ability, not in 1st draft)


Shatter the Walls Between the Worlds (Sp): Starting at third level, once per day, the metagnostic may rip a hole in the fabric of normal reality and open a two-way gate to the Far Realm which lasts for ten minutes. Every five levels thereafter (8th, 13th, 18th etc.) the duration of the gate increases by an additional ten minutes.

(Reduced from 1 hr/level to 10 min/level. Note that the Cosmic Descryer can open a gate for 1 day/level, so I've played this one down.)


Malign Vrittis (Ex): Starting at fourth level, the metagnostic begins to continually emit disquieting mental effluvia which have a detrimental effect on those nearby. Restful sleep in the vicinity of the metagnostic proves difficult, and all those within thirty feet who attempt to do so must succeed at a Will Saving Throw (DC 20 + half the metagnostic’s class level + the metagnostic’s charisma modifier) or suffer the effects of a nightmare spell. The metagnostic has no control over this ability.

(A very minor negative effect, but one that I like the flavour of - seizing on the nightmare idea offered but with a different spin.

Moment of Deranged Lucidity (Ex): Starting at fourth level, the metagnostic gains the ability to suddenly apprehend larger cosmic and metacosmic patterns which pertain to his current situation. As a free action, the metagnostic may invoke a moment of deranged lucidity, gaining a +15 insight modifier to his next Skill Check or attack roll. The metagnostic can use this ability once per day at 4th level, plus one additional time per day every five levels thereafter (9th, 14th, 19th etc.).

Bonus Feat (Ex): The metagnostic gains a bonus feat at 5th level and an additional bonus feat every five levels thereafter (10th, 15th, 20th etc.). These bonus feats must be selected from the following list: Augmented Alchemy, Automatic Quicken Spell, Automatic Silent Spell, Automatic Still Spell, Combat Casting, Craft Epic Magic Arms and Armour, Craft Epic Rod, Craft Epic Staff, Craft Epic Wondrous Item, Efficient Item Creation, Enhance Spell, Epic Spell Focus, Epic Spell Penetration, Familiar Spell, Forge Epic Ring,, Ignore Material Components, Improved Combat Casting, Improved Heighten Spell, Improved Metamagic, Improved Spell Capacity, Intensify Spell, Multispell, Permanent Emanation, Scribe Epic Scroll, Spell Focus, Spell Knowledge, Spell Mastery, Spell Opportunity, Spell Penetration, Spell Stowaway, Spontaneous Spell, Tenacious Magic.

Edit: fixed bold/italic mess.
 
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Nifft

Penguin Herder
Yet one more disadvantage:

Perception of Menace (Ex): Every creature of the class for which the Alienist suffers his phobia is treated as though it emanated an Aura of Menace (as a Celestial) which affects only the Alienist.

The Perceived Aura extends for 5 ft. around a Small or smaller creature, plus 5 ft. per size category larger than Small.

The Will save DC is [10 + 1/2 creature's HD + Cha bonus].

-- Nifft
 

Cheiromancer

Adventurer
There is quite a difference in how fast time passes in the Far Realms, isn't there? A gate that lasts 10 minutes from our perspective... how long is that in the Far Realm?
 

ruleslawyer

Registered User
I'm going to go with KingCroMag on this class. Epic PrCs are easier to balance than non-epic ones, IMHO. The reason: Bonus feats. The fact that the Metagnostic's feat acquisition drops from one feat per 3 levels (wizard or cleric) to one feat per 5 levels is a HUGE hit compared to the wizard. Moreover, the metagnostic starts with fewer feats: Both Alertness AND the Spell Focus feats are burn feats for any wizard or sorcerer character (the latter are useless, and the former can be gained as an automatic bonus feat by acquiring a familiar, which alienists actually gain an advantage in keeping throughout their level progression).

Thus, I'd say that this class can easily tolerate a +1 level progression AND nifty bonus abilities, without weaknesses. I for one would play one for the flavor, not for powergaming purposes. (Straight wizards work FINE for the latter, thank you.)

Also, consider making some of the extra suggested abilities into bonus feats. That will allow you to include a LOT of abilities without overloading the class.
 
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