Possible Epic PrC for an Alienist

[Lela]

Spell Focus is useless? A +2 to the saving throw of all Evocation spells is quite handy.

Also, note that the Alertness feat (with a familiar) is only avalible when the familiar is within five feet. Should he or his familiar be seperated, he would no longer have access to the the class features.

 

[KingCroMag]

Here are my thoughts/reactions on the class so far


Far Realm Naturalization (Ex): The metagnostic has a natural affinity with the Far Realm which renders him resistant to any spells and spell-like effects that would normally affect any creature not native to that plane (such as banishment). Furthermore, due to the time that the metagnostic has spent contemplating the nature of the Far Realm, he is no longer subject to its tendency to render visitors insane, nor do his spells suffer the usual chance of Wild Magic effects. See the Manual of the Planes (p. 212) for more details.

This I like. I allows the character to have his own schtick - a dangerous refuge so to speak.

Insane Charisma (Ex): The metagnostic adds his class level to all Charisma Checks, and to all Bluff, Diplomacy, Gather Information and Innuendo Skill Checks he makes when dealing with natives of the Far Realm. His increasing detachment from conventional reality means that the applies an equal penalty to all such Skill checks when dealing with creatures who are not native to the Far Realm.

I like the ability, but I worry about it punishing the character - I am not the biggest powergamer out there but why not take a more friendly prc class the summoner from relics and rituals or even archmage. I am hesitent to put penalties in a prc.

Dreadful Summons (Ex): Due to his prolonged contact with and exposure to Far Realm entities, once per day, when the metagnostic casts a summon monster spell, he may choose to summon an epic pseudonatural creature (see the pseudonatural template in the Epic Level Handbook) in place of the normal creature. Such a summoning requires the use of a spell slot nine levels higher than the spell’s actual level: e.g. if summon monster I is prepared as a tenth-level spell, the metagnostic may summon an epic pseudonatural version of any creature on the summon monster I list.

I liked this better with a +8 cost and unlimited use. SM spells (the characters specialty become speed bumps in high level play) this balances out the character verus your classic firball intelligence boosting wizard.

Pierce the Veil of False Reality: (Su): Starting at second level, the metagnostic gains the ability to perceive the pseudonatural currents which suffuse conventional reality. He must attune himself (a full-round action) in order to achieve this, but after so doing benefits from the effects of foresight (as the ninth level sorcerer/wizard spell) for ten minutes. The metagnostic can use this ability once per day at 2nd level, plus one additional time per day every five levels thereafter (7th, 12th, 17th etc.).

I don't like this ability - why not just cast the spell? I know it saves a spell slot, but I would consider dumping this ability.

Unnatural Aura (Ex): From second level, as his alienness begins to make itself manifest, the metagnostic always elicits an Initial NPC Attitude of unfriendly from feys, animals, plants, vermin and beasts. At sixth level, elementals, humanoids, monstrous humanoids, giants and magical beasts are included in the list of creatures who react in this way to the metagnostic. At 10th level, it extends to dragons and shapechangers, and at 14th level to all creatures except outsiders who are themselves native to the Far Realm.

I don't care for this one as well - it seems more a punishment than anything and would promote some min max class shifting. There should be some big payoff for such a penalty.


Shatter the Walls Between the Worlds (Sp): Starting at third level, once per day, the metagnostic may rip a hole in the fabric of normal reality and open a two-way gate to the Far Realm which lasts for ten minutes. Every five levels thereafter (8th, 13th, 18th etc.) the duration of the gate increases by an additional ten minutes.

I don't care for this one that much either. What is the character going to do with this ability? Only he can travel to the far realm and from the wording it does not seem he can use the calling ability of the gate spell - which has more uses.


Malign Vrittis (Ex): Starting at fourth level, the metagnostic begins to continually emit disquieting mental effluvia which have a detrimental effect on those nearby. Restful sleep in the vicinity of the metagnostic proves difficult, and all those within thirty feet who attempt to do so must succeed at a Will Saving Throw (DC 20 + half the metagnostic’s class level + the metagnostic’s charisma modifier) or suffer the effects of a nightmare spell. The metagnostic has no control over this ability.

Again a punishment with little pay off I would tie it to a positive.

Moment of Deranged Lucidity (Ex): Starting at fourth level, the metagnostic gains the ability to suddenly apprehend larger cosmic and metacosmic patterns which pertain to his current situation. As a free action, the metagnostic may invoke a moment of deranged lucidity, gaining a +15 insight modifier to his next Skill Check or attack roll. The metagnostic can use this ability once per day at 4th level, plus one additional time per day every five levels thereafter (9th, 14th, 19th etc.).

Not unbalancing, but with truestrike and wield skill still a little weak.

Bonus Feat (Ex): The metagnostic gains a bonus feat at 5th level and an additional bonus feat every five levels thereafter (10th, 15th, 20th etc.). These bonus feats must be selected from the following list: Augmented Alchemy, Automatic Quicken Spell, Automatic Silent Spell, Automatic Still Spell, Combat Casting, Craft Epic Magic Arms and Armour, Craft Epic Rod, Craft Epic Staff, Craft Epic Wondrous Item, Efficient Item Creation, Enhance Spell, Epic Spell Focus, Epic Spell Penetration, Familiar Spell, Forge Epic Ring,, Ignore Material Components, Improved Combat Casting, Improved Heighten Spell, Improved Metamagic, Improved Spell Capacity, Intensify Spell, Multispell, Permanent Emanation, Scribe Epic Scroll, Spell Focus, Spell Knowledge, Spell Mastery, Spell Opportunity, Spell Penetration, Spell Stowaway, Spontaneous Spell, Tenacious Magic

I would rather cut a few abilities or combine them and try to get the character a feat every four levels versus five. An epic straight class wizard should be your character to compare to. If you play with forgotten realms or other supplements compare to red wizard, elemental savant, and mages of waterdeep/arcane order.

I am just offering constructive critism and trying not to come off too critical.

-KCM

 

[ruleslawyer]

Spell Focus is useless? A +2 to the saving throw of all Evocation spells is quite handy.

Also, note that the Alertness feat (with a familiar) is only avalible when the familiar is within five feet. Should he or his familiar be seperated, he would no longer have access to the the class features.

Lela: Reread the requirements section. It's Spell Focus (Conjuration) or Spell Focus (Divination). Let's see what spells that benefits:

-Grease
-Web
-Stinking cloud
-Cloudkill
-Trap the soul

Not too many spells, is it? Spell Focus (Divination) is completely useless unless you introduce fancy new divination spells that are save-dependent.

As for the Alertness feat: If your familiar is more than 5 feet away from you, it's probably scouting, at which point it's doing the listening and spotting for you. Given that, losing the benefits of Alertness for a while isn't such a big deal.

 

[Sepulchrave II]

[Edit double post]

 

[Sepulchrave II]

Some mechanical counterpoints vs. KingCroMag's arguments.

The metagnostic adds his class level to all Charisma Checks...

I like the ability, but I worry about it punishing the character - I am not the biggest powergamer out there but why not take a more friendly prc class the summoner from relics and rituals or even archmage. I am hesitent to put penalties in a prc.

In a campaign which is planar binding-heavy, I would not underestimate the value of the Charisma check, or of this ability in general. I have already set the precedent that epic pseudonaturals are subject to binding like any other outsider, provided that their 'names' are known. It is in the discovery of the names that I have to exercise enormous caution: If the metagnostic were to uncover the name of, say, an epic pseudonatural solar, then an additional +5 or +10 on an opposed Charisma Check to compel service from it would be very nice indeed. The mechanic remains there, but the DM retains the flexibility to determine how useful it will be in play - if negative balance issues arise with the character (which I doubt), this offers a way to remedy them on an ongoing basis.

Dreadful Summons (Ex): ...

I liked this better with a +8 cost and unlimited use. SM spells (the characters specialty become speed bumps in high level play) this balances out the character verus your classic firball intelligence boosting wizard.

This needs some work - In fact, I think I'd like it to supercede the Alienist's extra summoning ability. Note that a 9-level increase in the spell still gets you a CR 18 monster for a 10th level slot - which seems like a reasonably fair progression from summon monster IX.

Of course, there's nothing to stop firing off quickened, intensified fireballs as well as this ability - if you've got 14th level slots, you've got 14th level slots.

Pierce the Veil of False Reality:...

I don't like this ability - why not just cast the spell? I know it saves a spell slot, but I would consider dumping this ability.

Dan wanted continual foresight as a class feature. I felt that was unreasonable. This is a nod towards balance, but I admit this needs thinking over.

Unnatural Aura (Ex): ...
I don't care for this one as well - it seems more a punishment than anything and would promote some min max class shifting. There should be some big payoff for such a penalty.

I really don't think that the in-game implications will be that big.

Malign Vrittis (Ex): ...

Again a punishment with little pay off I would tie it to a positive.

Mainly flavour. When your companions are 20-something level and mind blanked this will have zero impact. And 30 feet isn't very far. Some good RP possibilities, though.

Moment of Deranged Lucidity (Ex): ...

Not unbalancing, but with truestrike and wield skill still a little weak.

+15 to Spellcraft checks can be quite useful.

 

[Lela]

Lela: Reread the requirements section. It's Spell Focus (Conjuration) or Spell Focus (Divination). Let's see what spells that benefits:

-Grease
-Web
-Stinking cloud
-Cloudkill
-Trap the soul

Not too many spells, is it? Spell Focus (Divination) is completely useless unless you introduce fancy new divination spells that are save-dependent.

Point taken. You're right, I didn't reread the prereqs. It's been a long time since this thread started after all. I apologize.

As for the Alertness feat: If your familiar is more than 5 feet away from you, it's probably scouting, at which point it's doing the listening and spotting for you. Given that, losing the benefits of Alertness for a while isn't such a big deal.

It is when the feat is a prereq for something you do want to use. If the feat is gone then so are the rest of the class features.

DMG p. 27
Should a character find herself in a position (changed alignment, lost levels, and so on) where she no longer meets the requirements of a prestige class, she loses all special abilities (but not HD, base attack bonus, or base save bonus) gained from levels of the prestige class.

I'm not saying the feat isn't useless to most wizards. I'm just saying that they wouldn't want to use the familiar to get it.

That is, assuming the DM allowed it. Personally, I would (it does say they actually gain the feat). But I'd warn the player of what would happen should the familiar not be within arm's reach.

Of course, in this case, if Motsin wanted his guests to sleep well around him, then having his familiar sleep 6 ft away would be a viable option.

 

[KingCroMag]

In light of the campaign this is being developed for I agree the planar binding ability is balanced. In less binding/ heavy conjuration settings I still would take out the charisma penalty.

I would still like to see this class streamlined or made more inclusive (there has been mention of a pseudo natural transformation). I would ideally, like to see both classes fleshed out or combine them into one uber class like the perviously made class for this story hour.

Scep - I really like the story just trying to help as much as I can. I hope I am not becoming a pain.
-KCM

 

[Cheiromancer]

Sepulchrave,

Are you still using this alternate rule for determining how easily critters escape from summoning diagrams?

DC = 10 + (Caster Level + Cha mod.)- (Creature Level or HD + Cha mod.); with a +5 increase in the DC for a diagram.

This would have given a DC of 15, which seems about right (speaking from the gut here). It would also reflect the ability of a powerful spellcaster to enforce his Magickal Will upon lesser outsiders, whilst still pausing for thought when calling the big ones.

In fact, I think that's what I'll use from now on.

And (just reminded of the appendix in the 'Lost Caverns of Tsojcanth'), I think that a permanent diagram option would be nice also. Inlayed with precious metals.

I might give bindings some more thought.




I guess its all about how you see it working: even according to your calculation, a creature which needs to roll a natural 20 to escape will be more than 50% likely to have done so after 2 weeks - assuming a deal has not been struck.

I think the epic pseudonatural template should add a sizeable bonus to its chance to break free.

 

[Dimensional]

Dahh - It's got me

After reading this story hour from the begining of rape II I have resisted the urge to register - But now I am caught. Some one help me.


Now that that's out of the way. In general I think I like the abilities of the class - they feel fun.

but I would increase the no of uses of dreadful summons to somthing like 1/3 or 4 levels of metagnostic.

Shatter the Walls Between the Worlds , does not seem to fit, the rest of the class which seem's to be about becoming and understanding part of the far realms. and does not seem l;ike it would be all that useful anyway. Change it for somthing like far realm plane shift.

the major abilities seem balanced compared to an epic wizard or other epic spelll casting classes (my observations are all from reading only)

other than that there are quite a few negative flavor abilities. while all good. I would include one or two positve flavor abilities
(a bit like ed's light for example)

scince Mostin's aim seems to be understanding and becoming how about some sort of limited divine access as he gains understanding of the way the universe works beyond the normal realms of the gods

eg. at 4th level ability to cast 1st level divine spells
at 10th ability to cast 2nd level divine spells
at 16th ability to cast 3rd level divine spells

at these levels acces to low level divine spells would be almost meaningless but adds definite flavour and definitly fits mostins aim of surpassing Gods.

Just My Opinions
thanks for all your hard work

Jeremy

 

[Sepulchrave II]

I think the epic pseudonatural template should add a sizeable bonus to its chance to break free.

I thought about adding its strength modifier to its charisma modifier for its chance to break bindings - epic pseudonaturals have +22 Str more than the base creature, and its justifiable as a special ability with ' in something as incoherent as a pseudonatural where does Charisma end and Str begin?'

Using Str+Cha would mean that to have a 50% chance of holding - for example - a pseudonatural ultroloth (35 Str, 19 Cha, 13 HD - total modifier +29) in a proper diagram a 15th level caster would need a buffed charisma of 28. Even these are poor odds for the captor, and if he doesn't strike a deal in 24 hours, he's probably toast. To contain one with the minmum chance of breaking free (5% per day), the caster needs to be 25th level. To reliably contain a pseudonatural solar (50 Str, 25 Cha, 22 HD - total modifier +49), a 40th level caster would need a buffed charisma of 38 - a pseudonatural solar is CR 29 by the book, although I'd up that to around 33 off the top of my head. Sorcerers will naturally make better binders than Wizards.

Metagnostics, with their +1/level bonus to charisma checks vs. far realm inhabitants would gain a noticeable benefit by 30th caster level. The advantage will diminish by 40th level and, I suspect, be gone by 50th. Greater Planar Binding has a 24 HD cap, and the nastiest things I can think of that can be called (pseudonatural Ha-nagas, pseudonatural white slaadi, pseudonatural solars, etc.) should not pose significant threats at that level. I say should not, as my faith in the CR system is not solid, to say the least.

I should probably reword the planar binding mechanic as a 'special charisma check, to which the caster adds his level' to avoid ambiguity - it is still a charisma check.

Of course, banishing pseudonaturals is almost impossible because of their obscene SR. Once you've called them, they're hard to get rid of.

Edit: Just checked the stats for pseudonatural white slaad and pseudonatural Ha-naga (total adj +54 and +52 respectively): these are the 'worst abuse possible' case scenarios of the spell. A 45th level wizard with a charisma of 38 could call the pseudoslaad safely; a 40th level sorcerer with a charisma of 48 (perfectly plausible, I'm sure); or a wizard 11/ alienist 10 / metagnostic 14 (a 35th level character) with a buffed charisma of 'only' 30.