[possibly controversial]What is wrong with Vampire the Masquerade 5E?

[teitan]

Read the comics, dude.

I wouldn't call him evil in the comics either, he's an antihero but he's driven to kill monsters by any means necessary. I'd call him a neutral party, definitely not good but doesn't care unless it helps his cause. I read Tomb of Dracula and the modern stuff.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

Revised was really the best edition, if only they had all the great music quotes in it though. I learned so many new bands playing 2e because they included so many quotes.

Revised was an incredible mixed bag.

The music quotes were indeed good in both that and 2E (I barely remember 1E tbh). A lot of the rules were kind of better-designed, too, and the general art and design of Vampire was probably the strongest it has ever been.

But at the same time they reworked a bunch of lore and rules to try and make V:tM primarily focused on body horror with a minor in existential horror and nothing else, and it was an incredible case of attempting to open the stable door and chase all the horses you didn't like out. V:tM, by the time Revised came out, had become a pretty broad church, with some people playing it body horror, or existential horror, but a hell of a lot more playing as either "vampire manueverings in a modern city", with a heavy emphasis on politics and intrigue rather than horror (which honestly seemed like the intended mode of play from the campaign books), or "superheroes with fangs", which was hardly an invalid genre, given both media like Forever Knight and WW themselves supporting it with various books (including WoD: Combat). And the initial V:tM Revised actively, intentionally tried to end everything but body horror and existential horror.

I don't think I've ever seen a successful RPG do this before or since, certainly not intentionally (arguably 4E D&D did it unintentionally). They literally wanted to chase away or at least profoundly change the play style of (in an unlikely way) perhaps the vast majority and I suspect definitely the majority of their player base. It wasn't just a vibe either - a couple of the designers explicitly talked about it in that rather aggressive (not quite the right word) way that was common with all sorts of game designers in the late 1990s and early 2000s. Later Revised books seemed to backpedal on this a bit though.

 

[Autumnal]

For what it’s worth, the instructions to writers for Revised included a very explicit statement along the lines of “Don’t make your readers jump through hoops. They’ve proven they’re cool enough by buying the damn book.” One of many good lessons I learned from Justin.

 

[Voadam]

Could anyone recommend a modern take* on a vampire theme? What would that be?

A literary or a film source would be nice.

Modern take - essentially, a vampire capable of loving (and living in) modern times. A Lestat of sorts.

I would say Forever Knight TV series from the 90s for a not really evil modern vampire protagonist.

 

[Mark Hope]

Could anyone recommend a modern take* on a vampire theme? What would that be?

A literary or a film source would be nice.

Modern take - essentially, a vampire capable of loving (and living in) modern times. A Lestat of sorts.

My tentative estimate would be that a modern vampire would have to be warm blooded, less inconvenienced by sunlight and ultraviolet, and less prone to manic hunger. So yes, they could probably travel on an economy business flight.

At the same time time, they would probably be closer to Hannibal Lecter, less passionate, more alien.

So, any recommendations or suggestions, or different takes?

Only Lovers Left Alive. Tilda Swinton, John Hurt, and Tom Hiddleston as very old vampires in the modern day trying to hold on to love and meaning. Just a beautiful, beautiful film.

Byzantium. Gemma Arterton, Saoirse Ronan, and Sam Riley in a run-down coastal town. At once glossier and seedier than Only Lovers but quite compelling.

 

[Thomas Shey]

Twilight? The Vampire Diaries? Like it or not, Vampires seem to have gone from being monsters to straight up romantic heroes we're supposed to root for.

Its a little more complicated than that with the latter; VD style vampires are, essentially, superhuman predators who fight with emotional overresponse (as in they're effectively involuntary emos) and who's only easy solution to that is to essentially flip a mental switch which turns them into sociopaths. So vampire culture is filled with awful people but also people who are in a constant fight to be better than their nature, and some in the middle.

Basically, to the degree they're romantic heroes its in the "tortured people who are in the situation they're in often by no choice of their own". As such, they're not really benign, but they're also easier to empathize with than traditional vampires. They aren't really soulless monsters, but their situation forces them into corners that can cause them to be awful (and very powerful) villains.

Its actually a much more nuanced setup than something like Twilight.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Its actually a much more nuanced setup than something like Twilight.

A plain white wall is more nuanced than Twilight.

 

[Autumnal]

As Night’s Black Agents correctly recognized, spy stuff threads all through the fields for modern vampires, too. In the service of most secret conspiracies and against them, every mix of slamming glamorous violent action and bitter weary disillusioned moral exhaustion seems viable, and the existence of constant deception is really applicable. People knew that before the ‘00s but we mostly didn’t realize Just How Much it’s true.

 

[Thomas Shey]

A plain white wall is more nuanced than Twilight.

Just noting that lumping together properties here doesn't always do the discussion much good.

 

[MGibster]

As Night’s Black Agents correctly recognized, spy stuff threads all through the fields for modern vampires, too. In the service of most secret conspiracies and against them, every mix of slamming glamorous violent action and bitter weary disillusioned moral exhaustion seems viable, and the existence of constant deception is really applicable. People knew that before the ‘00s but we mostly didn’t realize Just How Much it’s true.

In V5, they talk about vampires abandoning modern conveniences like cell phones in favor of old school tradecraft like dead drops.