Potions and scrolls problem???

[JoelF]

I just finished reading all the way through the rule book and came upon something that seems wrong with making potions and scrolls. When you make them with the mage advanced class, there is a wealth DC for the raw materials equal to 15 (17 for potions) + spell level + caster level. That's fine so far, but when they list potions and scrolls in the FX items section at the end of the book, the purchase price for them is 15 (17 for potions) + spell level + caster level.

Shouldn't the purchase price be higher than the raw material price? Since it costs XP (and a lot more XP than in D&D I might add - this seems excessive actually) to make the potion or scroll, shouldn't the purchase cost be HIGHER than the raw material cost?

 

[kreynolds]

Shouldn't the purchase price be higher than the raw material price? Since it costs XP (and a lot more XP than in D&D I might add - this seems excessive actually) to make the potion or scroll, shouldn't the purchase cost be HIGHER than the raw material cost?

Not really. The same thing happens when you build a car, shotgun, etc, using the Craft skills. When you build something using the Craft skill, the Purchase DC to build it is identical to the Purchase DC to buy it.

When you sell it, the Purchase DC value drops by 3. However, since you had to spend XP, I don't think I would have a problem letting you sell it at full value.

 

[JoelF]

But why would anyone make their own when they have to spend XP also? Who wouldn't just buy it and only spend the wealth.

The analogy with modern items purchased vs. crafted is that modern items are mass produced, and therefore the purchase DC is the same as crafting it yourself, since you don't have the efficiencies of mass productions when you craft something on your own.

Also, the XP costs seem incredibly high, since they are calculated by multiplying the caster level by the spell level by the purchase DC. Even for a scroll of a1st level spell at caster level 1, this gets an purchase price of DC 17, and a XP cost of 17 XP. The equivilent scroll in D&D is 1 XP. Shouldn't the XP formula be something more like (caster level) x (spell level) x (purchase DC - 15). This would more accuately reflect the ratio established by D&D magic item creation rules, since there the purchase price starts at zero, while in D20 Modern it starts at 15 for scrolls and 17 for potions.

 

[kreynolds]

The analogy with modern items purchased vs. crafted is that modern items are mass produced, and therefore the purchase DC is the same as crafting it yourself, since you don't have the efficiencies of mass productions when you craft something on your own.

Not exactly. You're not necessarily locked into it. Take this for example. If you build a desktop computer in D20 Modern using the Craft skill, your Purchase DC to build it is 22, the same as if you bought it. Why? You're building it from scratch. However, I can personally attest to you, that in the real world, I can build a top of the line computer, one that would run DC 22 in a retail store, for a mere DC 20. But how do I do that? The Repair skill. When I order all the components and put them together, I'm using the Repair skill. I didn't "craft" anything.

That's where you can save your money, but magic items (such as scroll, potions, etc.) don't really sit in that same vein.

Craft is literally building something from nothing. Repair is when you fix something that's broke, or you take all the pieces and put it together.

 

[JoelF]

we can argue real life economics all we want, but the root of the problem is why would someone make their own and pay the XP cost instead of just buying it for the exact same wealth?

I can think of situations where you would use craft for non-magical items....mid-adventure to make something you couldn't buy, but not when you also have to pay the STEEP XP cost.

 

[kreynolds]

we can argue real life economics all we want...

Except I'm not arguing real life economics. I'm presenting the rules. I'll take a look at this some more tomorrow and see if I can't view this from your perspective.

 

[jaerdaph]

we can argue real life economics all we want, but the root of the problem is why would someone make their own and pay the XP cost instead of just buying it for the exact same wealth?

IMHO, this would be where GM control comes in. Sure you can buy it, but can you even find it? Magical items would/should in all likelihod be extremely rare in the modern world. YMMV depending on your campaign.