Potions that help against Conditions

[vagabundo]

This came up in my game when I was talking about Grells - the Cisterns in Thunderspire Labyrith are known to be infested by Grells.

My players asked if their were any potions that helped against being stunned, dazed and the like. I came up blank at the time - I told them they could continue and retroactively buy them when I found out more - butI still haven't found anything after searching.

Surly there is a, Potion of Mental Clarity - plus 5 to saving throws for Charms, and conditions like Stun and Daze. If not it seems like an oversight and I';ll just homebrew something.

 

[Mort_Q]

Potion of Vitality and Potion of Recovery (both PH) grant you a save (on top of some healing) but with no bonus.

 

[vagabundo]

Potion of Vitality and Potion of Recovery (both PH) grant you a save (on top of some healing) but with no bonus.

Thanks, missed the extra save in the description. But they are hefty price tags - the PCs are only 9th level.

I think I'll homebrew some potions for them.

 

[Aulirophile]

Thanks, missed the extra save in the description. But they are hefty price tags - the PCs are only 9th level.

I think I'll homebrew some potions for them.

4e is sort of trying to get away from potions and magic items that do something a character does. Leaders grant saving throws/save bonuses, so any magic item that does it kind of steps on their toes. They haven't been 100% on this, obviously, but for the most part they have been very good about it. Power resides primarily in the characters abilities/powers.

 

[jester_gl]

Also, don't forget that the player also have the option of making an heal check to grant a save as a standard action.

This make me think that a feat to improve this might be useful. Along the line of +2 feat bonus to heal check and if the heal check is successful, grant a +1 feat bonus to the save. Maybe another paragon feat that enable this action as a minor action, aka battle healer.

 

[Amaroq]

Yeah, I strongly agree with you, jester_gl. Spending a Standard action to grant a saving throw seems really high cost for minimal reward (50% chance of success). I've been considering house-ruling it to a Minor, but maybe I'll house-rule it to a feat to LET it be a Minor.

I know my Fighter doesn't have many Minor actions, so I'd be all over a feat like that. Maybe the feat requires you to do it on another, so you can't spend two Minors to grant yourself two additional saves while going toe-to-toe with the BBEG.

Hmm. Though if I'm standing toe-to-toe and have an adjacent ally, I could firehose additional saves at him.

But I've spent a feat to do it ... and a lot of classes have many more uses for minor actions ...

Hard to say.

Actually, from a design perspective, I've often wondered why there aren't more non-movement Move powers; this might be a good candidate.

If I'm already where I need to be, I use my Standard to fight, my Move to give a saving throw, and my Minor for something else ... If I'm not where I need to be, then I need to figure out whether its worth converting my Standard to a Move to grant the saving throw.

 

[Stalker0]

Yeah, I strongly agree with you, jester_gl. Spending a Standard action to grant a saving throw seems really high cost for minimal reward (50% chance of success). I've been considering house-ruling it to a Minor, but maybe I'll house-rule it to a feat to LET it be a Minor.

Here's what I've done with some skills in my game.

Heal (Standard Action) DC 15: Provides an extra saving throw to a character.
Quick Heal: If the player beats the DC by 10, he can perform the action as a minor action.


So what this means is that the player has to try the skill as a standard, but gets a great benefit if he gets a good heal check. It prevents people spamming out minor action skill checks (because if you got it, why not) but it still gives you that minor action love you are looking for.

 

[Shin Okada]

What is the composition of your adventuring party? They are at their 9th-level right?

Seriously, by the end of Heroic tier, countermeasures against conditions become more and more important even against usual HP heal and extra HPs. And they become must-have after reaching Paragon.

Maybe your players should look their character sheets again and consider retraining some powers (and maybe some feats) into saving throw-granting powers and such.

 

[firesnakearies]

Here's what I've done with some skills in my game.

Heal (Standard Action) DC 15: Provides an extra saving throw to a character.
Quick Heal: If the player beats the DC by 10, he can perform the action as a minor action.


So what this means is that the player has to try the skill as a standard, but gets a great benefit if he gets a good heal check. It prevents people spamming out minor action skill checks (because if you got it, why not) but it still gives you that minor action love you are looking for.

This is brilliant. Someone give him some XP for this.

 

[Colmarr]

This is brilliant. Someone give him some XP for this.

Except I'm not sure it is.

This is (I suspect) exactly why they changed Aid Another to a scaling DC. Sooner or later, PCs can do it by default.

Admittedly, DC 25 is a much different proposition to DC 10, but my level 10 battle cleric could hit DC 25 55% of the time, and giving him the ability to reliably grant saves as a minor action opens up a lot of versatility that isn't otherwise open to him.