Power Attack!?!?!?!?!?!?

[Berk]

Why do they give low HD, and there for low BaB, creatures power attack?

Here is a small list:
Azer BaB +2
Earth Elemental (small) BaB +1
Water Elemental (small) BaB +1
Gnoll BaB +1

Those are just the +1 and +2 BaB creatures, there are a bunch of +3 BaB creatures from the MM. Not to mention CC and CCII and the ToH and MMII.

 

[Mr Fidgit]

well, for the elementals, it allows them to have Cleave when they get to Large-size....

[edit - and the Azer and Gnoll both advance by character class, so maybe getting power attack early it allows all of them to get cleave as quickly as possible, as they advance]

 

[Felix]

And can't both Gnolls and Aziers advance taking character classes or NPC classes? That would increase their Bab.

 

[Berk]

well, for the elementals, it allows them to have Cleave when they get to Large-size....

Yeah but that large elemental isn't gonna be the same one as that small elemental.

And can't both Gnolls and Aziers advance taking character classes or NPC classes? That would increase their Bab.

Sure, but why give it to the average joe shmoe gnoll and azer when it serves very little purpose?

 

[Jeremy]

Creatures listed in the MM are the weakest examples of said given creature. Joe Schmoe gnoll doesn't expect to encounter adventurers at level 0. He expects to gain a few levels killing commoners on raids.

But those feats are simply the default ones that most choose to begin their adventures. You can swap them out according to habitat, background, or training.

Alternatively you could think of that as their fighting style. Gnoll Fighting Savagery: You gain -1 to hit and +1 to damage. The neglible penalty to hit is worth that one more point of pain to someone to them... <shrugs>

 

[dcollins]

But those feats are simply the default ones that most choose to begin their adventures. You can swap them out according to habitat, background, or training.

I hear this a lot from people on these boards. Do you have any quote to back that up with in the rules?

 

[Jeremy]

First thing that comes to mind is DMG 24,

For example, an ogre with no class levels has 4d8 HD, a base attack bonus of +3, one feat, and 8 skill points (plus intelligence modifier).

Note it doesn't say, "base attack bonus of +3, the power attack feat, and 8 skill points".

But I'm pretty positive that the feats listed in the MM aren't bonus feats, but merely the feats that the default weakest example of a creature generally chooses.

If I think of something else I'll post it. Maybe someone else has something more black and white..

 

[Spatula]

I hear this a lot from people on these boards. Do you have any quote to back that up with in the rules?

Does every gnome have Weapon Focus (short sword) like the ones detailed in the MM? The creatures in the MM are examples of an average member of each species, but individuals are just that. The hit points, feats, skills, and attributes of each individual creature does not need to match to what's in the MM. I don't have my books with me, but I'm sure this is talked about either in the opening section of the MM or in the D&D FAQ.

 

[Brekki]

Many descriptions of 1 HD base creatures say something like : "Most ... encountered outside their homes are warriors; the information in the statistics block is for one of 1st level."

This basically means you can just alter this first level of the creature any way you want to.

The "Advancement" piece of MM also states: "This book lists only the weakest and most common version of eacht creature."

The MM also clearly states how many skill points, feats etc a certain creature gets according to HD, so you can adjust those easily.

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

Thri-kreen are middle-of-the-road.

You get Deflect Arrows, EWP (gythka), EWP (chatkcha) as bonus feats, and one additional feat of choice.

[The typical kreen spends the feat slot on Weapon Focus (gythka)]

You get class skills equal to twice your Intelligence score, and the class skills are Balance, Climb (what were they smoking?), Hide, Jump, Listen, and Spot.

[The typical kreen gets Balance 2 ranks, Climb 3 ranks, Hide 2 ranks, Jump 5 ranks, Listen 5 ranks, and Spot 3 ranks, not including stat bonuses]

To me, it seems like you get to choose within a few limits, namely the class skills for your race.

The feat example here is a bit confusing, mainly because kreen get quite a few bonus feats.