Powerful Archer Builds

[Rackhir]

Thanks for the detailed builds and breakdowns. Now if I could just find a DM stupid enough to actually let me use a Peerless Archer...

 

[Thanee]

My group got into a big argument about whether or not a moderate to high level archer character is as potent as a mid to high level melee fighter. Can anyone give me some good evidence one way or another? 3.0 works perfectly fine for this particular exercise.

Sample builds would be great for this.

HERE I posted an old character of mine (last 3.0 character), who was a non-munchkinized elven rogue/cleric archer.

Definitely could keep up with the melee fighters.

Bye
Thanee

 

[nak9788]

Regardless of how many arrows you fire, an archer still has inherit weaknesses. Our DM threw a master archer at us once. My druid cast wind wall as we watched every arrow "bounce" harmlessly away as the spellcasters killed him quickly with magic missles, scorching rays, etc.

Plus if you are firing that many arrows a round, how do handle ammunition? I mean you would have to carry hundreds of arrows with you for one adventure (unless of course you have a magic item that creates them).

 

[Thanee]

Heh. My rogue/cleric actually did carry *several* hundred arrows.

Bye
Thanee

 

[kenobi65]

Plus if you are firing that many arrows a round, how do handle ammunition? I mean you would have to carry hundreds of arrows with you for one adventure (unless of course you have a magic item that creates them).

Couple of Quivers of Ehlonna. Each one holds 60 arrows, weighs only 2 lbs.

One big advantage 3E archers have is that magical enhancement bonuses on bows and ammunition stacked. (Someone realized how broken that was, and they don't stack in 3.5.) So, +2 bow and +2 arrows = +4.

 

[Bryan898]

Yes there are some munchkin archer builds out there too. But there's just as many, if not moreso, munchkin builds for fighters. Case in point, the Uber Charger (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=5769497), does something like 15,000-20,000 damage a hit, has the deathless frenzy, and can move extremely fast. Those are extreme cases though, and don't do much to show off the differences between an average archer and an average fighter at high levels.

The one thing I don't like about archers in D&D is that most of your damage intensive feats (point blank shot, weapon specialization, sneak attack, etc) require you to be within 30'. I would prefer something more akin to 60'. To deal as much damage as the frontline fighter you have to place yourself in bad situations. Being that close is charge range for almost any creature, and you can easily find yourself surrounded or in melee. Once in melee, what exactly can you do? If you switch out your bow you're at a distinct disadvantage since you're feats and stats are geared towards the bow. If you retreat with a withdrawl you better move faster than the opponents otherwise they can simply move up next to you (or charge you dependent on terrain). If you try to move and shoot you provoke AoO's for leaving their threatened areas. IMO archers just seem to get the short end of the stick in D&D.

 

[nak9788]

Couple of Quivers of Ehlonna. Each one holds 60 arrows, weighs only 2 lbs.

One big advantage 3E archers have is that magical enhancement bonuses on bows and ammunition stacked. (Someone realized how broken that was, and they don't stack in 3.5.) So, +2 bow and +2 arrows = +4.

If you think the 3E Quiver of Ehlonna was broken, it was NOTHING compared to the 2E version. It stated you could make ANY arrow of ANY kind you wanted (or javelin). +5 arrow? No problem. Arrow of slaying (whatever you were up against at that time)? No problem.

As a joke, we created an arrow that: open all doors, killed all monsters (arrow of slaying: all), went around corners, gathered up treasure and returned it to us, etc, etc.
We called it the "Adventure arrow". Fire one and the adventure is over.

So we quickly outlawed it.

We have a super-archer of our own who is a Ranger6/OoBI1 (we allowed her to take the required Weapon Specialization feat even though she wasn't a 4th level fighter). So solve the ammo problem we had an "Everful Quiver" made which basically holds 20 arrows and creates a new arrow whenever one is taken from it.


By the way Bryan898, you forgot to mention that close only counts in horseshoes, hand-grenades and Thermonuclear weapons!

 

[ksbsnowowl]

Plus if you are firing that many arrows a round, how do handle ammunition... (unless of course you have a magic item that creates them).

Check out the Quiver of Anariel from the WotC site:

Quiver of Anariel: Quivers of Anariel appear to be typical arrow containers capable of holding a score of arrows. However, the quivers automatically replenish themselves with standard or magical arrows, such that they are always full. Some quivers also create arrows made of special materials, such as adamantine, cold iron, or alchemical silver.

Once an arrow it taken from the quiver, it must be used within 1 round or it vanishes.

Moderate conjuration; CL 7th; Craft Wondrous Item, magic weapon, minor creation; Price 28,000 gp (standard arrows), 29,000 gp (masterwork arrows), 32,000 gp (+1 arrows), 44,000 gp (+2 arrows), 64,000 gp (+3 arrows), 92,000 gp (+4 arrows), 128,000 gp (+5 arrows); Add an additional +6,000 gp for adamantine arrows, +4,005 gp for cold iron arrows, or +200 gp for alchemical silver arrows; Weight 1 lb.

 

[focallength]

Wow, you guys actually play games where you have characters doing 300-600 points of damage from their attacks? That is totally insane. What are youre encounters like? DM " ok 5 great red wyrms, 7 Iron golems and HEY! a duke of hell attack you while you sleep" That is so far beyond the scope of the game that it isnt even funny. Interesting that you can actually do that, but where is the fun in it. 99% of the monsters ever created can be killed by one guy in one round. Oh look its a terrasque, hey mr. wizard prep your wish spell and Ill knock an arrow and kill it.

 

[nak9788]

Wow, you guys actually play games where you have characters doing 300-600 points of damage from their attacks? That is totally insane. What are youre encounters like? DM " ok 5 great red wyrms, 7 Iron golems and HEY! a duke of hell attack you while you sleep" That is so far beyond the scope of the game that it isnt even funny. Interesting that you can actually do that, but where is the fun in it. 99% of the monsters ever created can be killed by one guy in one round. Oh look its a terrasque, hey mr. wizard prep your wish spell and Ill knock an arrow and kill it.

You're right that is insane damage. That's why as a DM, I play my critters smart to make sure they never meet the players under "optimal conditions". As I mentioned before, a simple wind-wall would make any archer totally useless while the spell was in effect.

There was an article in Dragon magazine that addressed how simple mid-level characters could kill an old red dragon because they had a well thought-out strategy and the dragon was played "out of the book". They killed it with barely a fight. They used the same example but took into account a Dragon's intelligence whereby he used traps, helpers, spells, etc. The players were slaughtered. So its not the monsters abilities, its how they are used by the DM that make them truely nasty.