Powergaming: Wizard vs. Sorcerer

[Felix]

The thing is, a Wizard can make scrolls for half the price that the Sorcerer pays. So I'm not sure that "extra loot" is really a note of balance in favor of the Sorcerer.

A Wizard also gets all those nifty bonus feats, which may be used for item creation (like Wands or Staves or Rings or Wondrous items which obviate particular spells). Again, at half price.

Fear the Wizard with wealth and spare time.

Cheers, -- N

A Wizard may add spells to his spellbook one of four ways:

Free spells gained at leveling.
Scribed from a scroll.
Copied from another spellbook.
Independent research.​

The free spells are equivalent to the number of spells a Sorcerer has in his Spells Known, so this is a wash. The rest carry a cost that the Sorcerer does not have to pay.

(When calculating the cost of scrolls, I assume they are purchased. Scrolls found as loot will expand the Wizard's spells available, but will also expand the Sorcerer's collection of scrolls. The balance goes to the Wizard in this case; the frequency of scrolls found as loot will change this from insignifigant to signifigant.)

• A purchased scroll costs levelx100gp to scribe in the spellbook.

• A "rented" spellbook from another wizard costs levelx100gp to scribe and levelx50 to rent. (levelx150gp)

• Independent research will cost (standard) 1 week per level of the spell and 1000gp per week. This expenditure provides only the possibility of success, instead of a guarantee.

I don't argue that the Wizard cannot have a much wider repitoire than the Sorcerer, merely that in order to have it there must be a signifigant outlay of cash and time. This refers to my comment that the Wizard, to be more effective, must have an influence on the pacing of the game; the Wizard will slow it down so that his strength, strategic flexibility, may be maximized.

Meanwhile the Sorcerer may spend this cash and time in other pursuits. Perhaps you think it an advantage not worthy of the Wizard's strategic flexibility, but recognize if for the perquisite it is.

I have seen characters with spare time, but I have rarely seen a wizard with extra money; playing a wizard is expensive.

 

[Nifft]

Totally agree that many factors come into play, and most are very campaign-specific.
Down time, wealth, availability of scroll-shops, etc.

Of course, I'm not saying that this one thing makes sorcerers 'super 733t'; it is just that it rarely seems to come up in comparitive discussions.

It's just that, IMHO, Sorcerers shine brightest in a low-wealth environment, while Wizards are almost always able to convert wealth into flexibility, and therefore power.

"It takes a city to finance a Wizard."

Cheers, -- N

 

[Plane Sailing]

"It takes a city to finance a Wizard."

Nice quote!

 

[Marshall]

One of the advantages that a Sorcerer has over a wizard is the ability to use and re-use spells when necessary. At, say, 10th level - how many dispel magics does a wizard have prepared? He has probably got between 4-6 3rd level slots, but how many of those are filled with dispel magic - probably 1, maybe 2. He could have a wand, but it is probably at a lower caster level if he does.

IME, the WIZ will be able to throw any spell he prepares, of 2 or more levels less than his max, at least 3-4 times at full caster level.

Pearls of Power are ridiculously cheap and when combined with the almost required CWI feat get even cheaper. Take into consideration what BBB does to the Wiz scribing costs and the difference in wealth between a SOR and a WIZ vanishes.

Its significantly cheaper for the WIZ to match the SORs endurance than it is for the SOR to match the WIZs versatility.

Add in that the SOR is next to useless when not casting spells and you get....

 

[Felix]

Take into consideration what BBB does to the Wiz scribing costs

Consider also that it costs 12,500gp.

As soon as you have it, scribing costs are removed, but you still have to get it.

 

[Destil]

If you gave a Sorcerer

a)5 + 1(fixed, like Eschew Materials or Spell Penetration) bonus feats (analog to Wizard's 5 bonus feats + Scribe Scroll)

b)bumped up spell progression, so that they get their spells one level earlier (ie the same level as the Wizard)

would it make them equal to Wizards? Or stronger?

Or would just either option A or B be enough by itself to equalise with Wizards?

Most likely. In my next game I'm offering sorcerers:

a)5 + 1(Sudden Metamagic: 3 + Cha mod times per day, metamagic a spell on the fly without increasing the casting time) bonus feats.

b) 4 skill points / level with a really broad selection of Cha skills.

c) Light armor prof. (along with a feat to reduce arcane spell failure avilable on their bonus feat list)

 

[Razilin]

I could say "neither" or "both are good, depending on gaming style"...

but hell with that--this is a One or the Other question, and by Jove, I'm gonna pick a side and NOT sit on some lame fence!

Sorcerer!

Why? 1) I'm not a magic item creator type of player. 2) I like fighting. A lot.

1) is self explanatory. As to 2), I find the wizard to possess all the flexibility that a Swiss army knife has. That's great. But you don't see any WWI soldiers carrying a Swiss army knife as a bayonet. Because I like to get into the thick of a fight regardless of my class, the sorcerer is up my alley, especially after PHB2 and SPell Compendium came out--with their boatloads of swift and immediate action spells.

I no longer need to cast shield and waste a round. I can cast Deflect or Lesser Deflect as a swift/immediate action and bombard my enemy IN THE SAME ROUND with a fireball. I no longer need to cast protection from energy; I cast energy aegis as an immediate action instead. Granted, swift/immediate spells are like premature ejaculation--feels good for all of 6 seconds. But, premature ejaculation still gets a girl pregnant, so it does the job. Same with spells--they keep you alive for one more round, while you take the life of your enemy at the same time.

Given the fact that a sorcerer can cast spells without preparation, I have a much greater degree of flexibility (in combat, at least) than a wizard ever could. That's perfectly fine with me. I want to ID a magic item or open a locked door? I'll call the wizard or rogue. You want the dragon dead? I'll take it head on with just as much gusto as the barbarian.

Now, there is a big flaw with my strategy, that being the spells known progression of the sorcerer. Each new level of spells that gets accessed is depressingly divided--will that one 3rd level spell be a fireball or an energy aegis? An attack spell or life-saving defense? I like to play defensively and just metamagic the crap out of my low level attack spells, so I usually opt for the defensive spell myself.

 

[Plane Sailing]

I think the single nicest thing that could be given to sorcerer characters is a spell slot at the same point the wizard gets it, without giving spells known early. E.g. a 5th level sorcerer doesn't get to know any third level spells, but he gets a third level spell slot (which can then be filled with a metamagiced 1st or 2nd level spell).

This would give a slight increase in power at the odd levels where sorcerers noticeably dip behind wizards.

The other changes I've seen suggested which might be reasonable are d6 HD, or no penalty on spontaneous metamagic casting (thus opening up quicken to the sorcerer).

Cheers

 

[Razilin]

i'd be all for the d6 increase, but i like the inherent control in metamagic feats requiring a full-round cast time.

in play, i've found that to be a very minor issue, since as a caster i rarely move around unless the rest of the party isn't running a defensive line against the opponents.

and quicken spell is another control; its the wizard's ace in the hole against the sorcerer.

 

[Crothian]

and quicken spell is another control; its the wizard's ace in the hole against the sorcerer.

Not that the Wizard really needs it.