Powers & Scrolls

[kevtar]

Hello all,

I just had a quirky idea and was wondering if anyone would be willing to help me think it through to see what kind of impact it might have on a 4e game. What if wizards could use at-will powers from arcane classes via a scroll? For instance, perhaps a wizard had Magic Missile and Tunderwave as at-will powers, but wanted to periodically cast "Illusory Ambush." Would allowing the wizard to create the scroll (for a certain gp amount) and then activating it as a consumable, encounter item be balanced, fair, and all that?

How about the same scenario except the wizard wanted to use "Green Flame Blade," and instead of using a sword as an implement, they could use their staff? Maybe without the implement bonus to the attack since it would not be the same implement?

Just some random thoughts. I'd love to hear your input.

Cheers

 

[jstomel]

Well, it would make wizards more powerful than they already are by a fair bit. Since in my opinion wizards are already the most powerful class in PH1 and one of the most powerful overall, it would be bad for game balance, though not devastatingly so. If you don't care about game balance or are already planning on doing something for the other classes, go for it.

 

[Flipguarder]

That would make Wizards the best controller by an unacceptable amount in my opinion.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

It would add a lot of flexibility to wizards. There are actually already a whole slew of ways wizards can do similar things using tomes, feats, etc. It takes a good bit of investment and it doesn't give them access to powers of other classes generally, but the flexibility is there. Allowing it via scrolls would definitely downplay all those other ways. Letting them have bard, warlock, swordmage, artificer, and sorcerer powers on top of that does seem like too much. It also messes up the overall per-encounter balance since nothing will prevent a wizard from going crazy ultra nova and just burning powers left and right.

I'd propose a different variation of this concept (I haven't thought this all the way through, so it may well still have problems).

Allow characters to create scrolls containing a single use of a power from their class. In order to use this power the character would have to expend a power of the same type and level. Obviously making these scrolls would have some cost. It could be determined based on the level and type of power. This still provides a lot of flexibility, but doesn't fundamentally alter what the PC can do.

The truth is though, anyone who can make consumables of various types is practically already at this point. I mean the number of consumables available now between PHB1, AV1, and AV2 is QUITE large. They don't exactly reproduce powers, but they certainly provide quite a wide range of possible effects, especially when you consider alchemy and the new magical ammunitions in there.

That might still leave a spot for "scrolls" granting some utility powers. The real question then would be how to fluff it for martial characters, etc. Potions etc I suppose could be concocted for those where they don't exist already.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

For the right cost, it might be, but I wouldn#t narrow it down to Wizards.

1) The cost for encounter and daily powers on scrolls should probably also involve expending an equal level power. More versatility, not more powers per encounter or day. A daily magic item use might also be involved.

2) Use the rules for alchemical items as a baseline. Essentially, the items are consumables and come with a fixed attack bonus. Scrolls should probably do the same.
The level of the scroll replaces the level modifier of the caster, perhaps. Minimum level of every scroll is equal to the level of the power. Or, if you want to be on the 100 % safe side: The scroll has an attack modifier entirely dependend on its level. No bonuses from the caster (just like alchemical items.). In that case, the bonus should probably something like Level +2. (Assumes you consistently increase yout attack bonus.)

If the attack bonus of the power is not dependent on the cost, you have to require expending encounter powers, daily powers, daily item uses or action points - something that still "costs" something. Daily Item Uses are probably wort less than daily powers and action points, and maybe equal (maybe less) than encounter powers.

 

[aco175]

I like the idea of having to use one of your encounter or dailies to use the scroll power. It would keep the same power in the fight, or close to it. Although not sure how it would work at higher level, should be fine since you only have a limited number of powers.

What about having to use an action point to be able to cast the scroll? It would limit it to one per encounter. Maybe have to make reading it a minor action, which sounds funny to me somehow.

I can also see other classes wanting to get on with this. Maybe you would need the cast ritual feat, or make one create/use scroll.