Powers that weren't as good as you thought or were better.

[Saeviomagy]

Oh, I don't know. Riposte seems like it'd be good at low levels. It might be one of those that's worth having initially but should be traded away later. But honestly, given you're probably a Brutal Rogue if you're taking this, I don't see the problem. It's an extra d6+4 damage or so. What's the problem?

If your foe chooses not to attack you in melee from within your threatening reach, the power does nothing.

If the power misses, it has no effect (whereas piercing strike increases your chance to hit and deft strike can too, by providing a flank that might otherwise be impossible).

If the power hits, but the riposte misses, it has no effect.

If the power hits and you kill your foe, it has no effect.

If you deliberately try to set up scenarios where you're the most favourable target for your foe despite the riposte... you get pounded into the ground. Rogues are pretty squishy.

It just ends up not doing anything most of the time that you use it.

Now - I could see specifically building a halfling rogue brute and boosting OA protection, then deliberately provoking OAs... But I think you'd still be better off just attacking with sly flourish instead.

Oh, and family: combine knockout blow with an action point and assassin's point. Owwie.

 

[Cadfan]

Riposte Strike isn't bad. I've been using it.

1. It dissuades enemies from attacking you, in favor of attacking your allies. If your allies have more armor and hp, this is a good thing.

2. If your enemy hasn't got anyone else in reach, and they can't shift a space away and charge (generally because you're in the line of the charge), they can either attack you and take the riposte, or waste a round. This happens more often than you'd think if, like me, you have a tendency to end up off on your own like an idiot.

3. Every so often it completely negates your foe's attack by killing him. When this happens, it is hilarious.

Of course, my rogue is human and has no charisma bonus, so it was inevitable that I'd take Riposte Strike. But even with that caveat, I've been enjoying it. I don't use it remotely as often as I use Piercing Strike, but I do use it.

 

[blargney the second]

Glad to hear, as our dragonborn warlord took Knight's Move as his Utility 2 power (and our ranged took Yield Ground).

Have you had a chance to try them out since this post? What's the rest of your party composed of?
-blarg

 

[NorthSaber]

several posts lauding knockdowns, and stating that it's impossible to rise from prone and attack unless adjacent...

This is wrong, isn't it? All the prone foe has to do is rise and charge. If he's adjacent he rises and attacks, if not he rises and charges. There might be a dead zone of 1 square, but really the whole Prone condition is way too finicky to be really useful.

You need to be able to move 2 squares to charge, that's the thing. If you trip someone at reach 2, or trip them at reach 1 and shift back, there's no combination of actions they can do that allows them to get up and attack you (with the exception of a ranged or reach weapon).

But yeah, I was underwhelmed by knocking the enemy prone...

I have to disagree with someone above though: my fighter healed 15 hp from Boundless Endurance in a single fight, and that's a pretty big deal.

Well, my Con was 13 until just recently (my focus is Str/Dex/Wis) - yours might be higher - and you can get 15 temp hp from Unstoppable too. The two are about as good, but as I said, I'll get more important stances soon, and I'd rather take the guaranteed temp hps than regeneration that might only see one active round per day.

If we had a larger group, the others might be able to afford to fight without me for a few rounds as I heal, but right now I'm needed immediately back in the action, and if I'm at 50% hp there's a huge risk I'll drop if several attacks hit me in the next round. Chances are I'll get outside healing pretty quickly to get me back into action.

Boundless Endurance will be more useful at later levels, though, since 50% of my hp will be a higher number, and my Con bonus will also be better. The thing is that I find the offensive stances to be more useful (a dead enemy deals no damage), and eventually Unyielding Avalanche will pretty much make all previous stances obsolete.

 

[The Stray]

In our KotSF game, I'm playing a gnome ranger with an emphasis on movement-based melee. That said, Hit and Run never got used, because I have both once-per-encounter invisibility if I get hit and once-per-encounter Elusive Attack for both getting into and out of hot spots, and if I get surrounded by guys I'm screwed anyway. I found myself using mostly Basic Attacks for all of first level instead of my at-wills, because I wanted to try a ranger without Twin Strike (I've since learned my lesson and retrained).

On the other hand, I knew going into game that Fade Away way a pretty sweet power, but I overlooked the gnome ability to remain hidden if they start a combat round with cover or concealment, meaning that I can pretty much count on having Combat Advantage the first round, much like a rogue.

And I can't sing the praises of Elusive Attack enough...it is by far my favorite ranger power.

In the game I DM, our fighter got very little use out of Spinning Sweep and traded for Steel Serpent Strike.

 

[Goumindong]

Prone is a lot better than you think when you have fewer enemies than players.

Someone should ready an action when they get up and/or end their movement adjacent.

E.G.

Two players have a prone ability:

Player 1 hits with the prone: Player 2 readies his prone for as soon as the enemy gets up.

Enemy gets up, player 2 knocks him prone. Enemy has lost a full action and the players have lost no initiative against the enemy.

These status effects are good because they broadcast what the enemies next action(s) are going to be which allows an easy readied action against their action. Which allows further action denial.

In terms of open range action denial its better than knockback. Since if you push someone they can move then attack. And if they get pushed back after the move they can charge. Charge is better than a standard action attack most of the time, but pushes take twice as many readied actions to pull off.

 

[Cadfan]

Prone is great when it works. It just requires monkeying with the initiative order, or else its useless. That's what I think surprised a lot of people. They knock someone prone, that sounds like a good thing, but then the enemy just gets up and attacks like nothing ever happened.

 

[Goumindong]

Prone is great when it works. It just requires monkeying with the initiative order, or else its useless. That's what I think surprised a lot of people. They knock someone prone, that sounds like a good thing, but then the enemy just gets up and attacks like nothing ever happened.

Readied actions set your initiative right before the action that triggered them. This usually doesn't mess with the order much.

 

[Cadfan]

Right, right, the point is, unlike Slow or Stun or Daze, knocking someone prone is useless unless you add extra fiddly bits.

 

[Keenath]

A lot of the value from Daze comes from Combat Advantage and No Flanking.

Not to mention the fact that they can't make OAs. That's huge. A dazed enemy is just a tree when it's not his turn; you can walk right past him without fear. That's a bigger advantage than you realize.

If your foe chooses not to attack you in melee from within your threatening reach, the power does nothing.

See, I don't equate "does no damage" with "does nothing". If my Riposte encourages an enemy to go fight the Fighter instead of my Rogue, that action was worth it.

If the power misses, it has no effect (whereas piercing strike increases your chance to hit and deft strike can too, by providing a flank that might otherwise be impossible).

Sure, but that goes for all powers. They're all situational.

In a lot of cases you'll be pretty sure of a hit anyway and don't need the Piercing Strike to boost that. If I'm flanking with the fighter, the attack bonuses stack up high enough that I'm hitting on a 5 or 6 anyway (+4 dex, +3 proficiency, +1 weapon talent, +2 combat advantage = +10 at 1st level). Attacking Reflex isn't a huge benefit in that case, especially compared against the chance for a second attack.

If the power hits, but the riposte misses, it has no effect.
If the power hits and you kill your foe, it has no effect.

Making an attack roll and missing isn't "no effect". You got to roll it.

Anyway, this doesn't make any sense. If you kill your foe with this power, you would've done the same with Piercing strike or any other attack. Be happy with making a kill and don't complain about your power getting "wasted". That's like the fighter whining that his Tide of Iron is worthless when he drops the enemy with it because there's no point to pushing a dead enemy.

If you deliberately try to set up scenarios where you're the most favourable target for your foe despite the riposte... you get pounded into the ground. Rogues are pretty squishy.

That depends on how you build him. A brutal dagger-rogue is pretty much designed for close in fighting, and if you give him decent CON he's actually a good character. Yeah, he's a skirmisher, but he's not THAT squishy.

I mean, that's really the point here, isn't it? The power encourages the enemy NOT to hit you! It's not exactly a defense boost, but it makes attacking you a bad idea, which WILL reduce the number of attacks against you. (Remember: Monsters always know the results of a course of action. They know what'll happen if they're marked and don't attack the paladin, and they know what'll happen if they attack you after you hit them with Riposte Strike.)