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[PRC] Flurry of Blades (Balance Help Needed)

Rahkan

First Post
Alright, this is my attempt at a Thrown Weapons master prestige class. Along the way it permutated into a volley of daggers prestige class, but what can you do? The main problem here is that I'm pretty sure the class is unbalanced and I'd like to know which neat features to give up, how to rearrange them so the class does not become front-loaded, and what requirements to ask for. If you have any ideas for further class features, either in addition to or in place of the ones here, as well as how to word the existing ones so they are less confusing, I'm all ears.

Flurry of Blades
He leaps into the room, glittering with the heavy clinking plates of his armor yet he is armed not with a huge broadsword nor a massive longbow. All that stands between him and his numerous foes is a tiny glint of steel glittering against his palm. And then another, and another, and another. And soon everyone in the room has their very own. The Flurry of Blades stands rooted in place, but his blades fly across the room so thick that you could dance a jig on them. His hands move with delicate precision and his fingers traipse like a pianist's, one can scarcely see the knives in his hands.
Hit Die:d6

Requirements
To qualify to become a Flurry of Blades, a character must fulfill all the following criteria

Feat: Quickdraw
Feat: Two-Weapon Fighting
Feat: Ambidexterity
Feat: Point Blank Shot
Feat: Rapid Shot
Feat: Far Shot
Feat: Precise Shot
BAB: +6

Class Skills
The class skills are (and the key ability for each skill) are are Balance(Dex), Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Handle Animal (Cha), Jump (Str), Ride (Dex), Swim (Str), and Tumble (Dex).

Skill Points at Each Level: 2 + Int Modifier

Class Features All of the following are class features of the Flurry of Blades prestige class. All the abilities are extroardinary

Weapon and Armor Proficiency - The Flurry of Blades gains proficiency with light, medium, and heavy armor but not with any shields or weapons.

Extra Blades (1st, 5th, 10th) - The essence of the Flurry of Blades is the ability to send unending waves of knives across the room. What others may have in precision or grace, he makes up for in volume. If he uses the off-hand to make a ranged attack with the dagger its penalties are applied as if the Two-Weapon Fighting feat applied to ranged attacks. This stacks with the extra attack and the penalty granted by Rapid Shot. At level 5 you gain an extra off-hand attack at a -5 penalty. At level 10 you gain another extra off-hand attack at a -10 penalty. You can only use these attacks when making a ranged attack with a dagger.

Improvised Missile (2nd)- As a free action the character can quickly look around, find, and pick up an object suited for throwing. This object, be it a small rock, vial, pebble, or mug can be thrown at -2 penalty for all attack rolls, and does 1d4 damage with a critical rating of 20/2x and range increment of 10. Whether the area is too scarce to allow for such objects to be found is up to the GM.

Well-Placed Shot (3rd)- The Flurry of Blades has a quick eye for weakness and his hand seeks it out with ruthless accuracy.The character may choose to add his dexterity modifier to damage in place of his strength modifier.

Superhuman Throw (4th)- Once per day as a full-round action the Flurry of Blades may pick up an object of up to ten times the sum of his strength modifier and Flurry of Blades level (always at least 50), provoking attacks of opportunity, and throw it as a ranged weapon with increment of 5 and threat range of 18-20/2x. It does 1d6 damage for every ten pounds of weight. The DM should adjucate the exact weight of any such object being picked up and thrown.

Stream of Blades (6th)- At the sound of the footstep the Flurry of Blades doesn't wait for further confirmation and, with flying fingers, tosses a dozen daggers into the inky darkness with incredible speed and little attention to precise aim. This ability is a full round ability that provokes attacks of opportunity and is similar to lightning bolt in that it creates a 5-ft wide area of effect up to three range increments long. The Flurry of Blades can make one attack against every creature caught within the area of effect. But the target of this attack loses any AC bonus due dexterity (he is effectively flat-footed) and concealment (inc. that granted by spells like invisibility and blur) due to the fact that it is impossible to dodge the randomly strewn yet numerous daggers. However, damage for this attack does not receive the benefits of the Well-Placed Shot ability.

Desperation Shot (7th)- The Flurry of Blades is often faced with opponents retreating nimbly, spellcasters raining death from far distances, or monsters of myth soaring high. His short-range weapons, so versatile against close-by enemies are useless against these far-off mocking spectres. So occasionally the Flurry of Blades must abandon speed and let determination and desperation guide his hand. Once per day, as a full round action incurring attacks of opportunity the character may select any target in range and make a single ranged attack with a dagger against it. This attack gains a bonus to damage equal to twice his Flurry of Blades level, its range increment is doubled (stacking with Far Shot for a tripling), and its threat range is doubled, a doubling that stacks with keen effects or Improved Critical. For one round after making this attack the character suffers a -2 penalty to AC and loses all dexterity bonus to AC, rendering him effectively flat-footed and open to sneak attacks.

Dance! (8th)- Some opponents are simply too much for the Flurry of Blades to deal with alone. But through an assortment of threats and flying missiles he is able to keep his target on its toes and leave it as easy pickings for his fellows. As a full round action you may target a creature and attack him with thrown daggers. Treat all such attacks as ranged touch attacks. The creature suffers a penalty to AC, Reflex saves, or Attack Rolls (the Flurry of Blade's choice as to which) equal to the number of daggers that hit.

Draw! (9th)- One dagger is no threat to a hardy opponent, and many foolish men will try to take the Flurry of Blades by surprise to rob him of the advantage of his many missiles. In these cases, through a watchful eye and preternaturally quick wits, the Flurry of Blades may keep his hands cocked to throw many-bladed death at any transgressor. You may ready (DMG p.134) a full attack action instead of a partial action, however your full attack can only consist of throwing daggers (up to your normal number of attacks), not melee attacks or a five foot step. The target of this readied action must be within 30 feet for the action to go off, otherwise it does not occur even if the conditions are met.

Hair Trigger (10th)- Eventually the Flurry of Blades gains such an ability to track targets that he is able to hold an entire room in frozen silence, sending missiles towards anyone who dares even move, much less raise a hand against him. Once per day as a free action a Flurry of Blades armed with blades in both of his hands may choose to threaten every square within thirty feet of his position. All Attacks of Opportunity he makes while using the Hair Trigger ability must be ranged attacks with one of his daggers. He may use Hair Trigger indefinitely but it ends once the Flurry of Blades moves (including five-foot steps, but not including attacks made as part of the Full Attack Action) or has thrown a total of 3 + dex modifier daggers as part of Attacks of Opportunity, whichever comes first. After the Hair Trigger effect ends the Flurry of Blades becomes fatigued from the mental stress of being on constant alert. Note that this ability in no way over-rides the normal limits on the number of attacks of opportunity per round.

Lev BAB F R W Special
1st +1 +0 +2 +0 Two-Handed Throw
2nd +2 +0 +3 +0 Improvised Missile
3rd +3 +1 +3 +1 Well Placed Shot
4th +4 +1 +4 +1 Superhuman Throw
5th +5 +1 +4 +1 Extra Blades I
6th +6 +2 +5 +2 Stream of Blades
7th +7 +2 +5 +2 Desperation Shot
8th +8 +2 +6 +2 Dance!
9th +9 +3 +6 +3 Draw!
10th+10+3 +7 +3 Extra Blades III, Hair Trigger
 

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Forrester

First Post
I see someone just saw Daredevil.

Bullseye, anyone? :)

Incidentally, I LOVE this class . . . as a pure fighter class.

My only concern is that it would be taken by rogue/fighters, and I think the sneak attack damage this class combo would get, stacked with the dex modifier to damage and the increased number of daggers . . . grim. Just grim.
 
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Coredump

Explorer
Looks like a fun concept.

One of the problems I have (pet peeve) are the requirements people make for feats and PrC's.

Like you, the only pick ones that would be directly beneficial. One of the things that balances the 'power' of a later feat, is needing to pick up a 'wasted' feat before-hand. The same is true for many of the PrC's.

All of the feats you require are ones they would want anyway, so all it does is increase their power with the PrC. Throw in Mobility, or Dodge, or something else. maybe require 8lvls in Knowledge(aerodynamics) or somesuch.

There should be aspects in the requirements, *and benefits* that would not be wanted by everyperson taking the PrC. ('course, the benefits should be wanted by *someone*) Maybe one of the lvl bennies could only be good for throwing 2-handed items, or only useful for indoors, or outdoors, etc. etc.

It shouldn't look like a wishlist that someone made up.

IMO.
 

Rahkan

First Post
Coredump said:
Looks like a fun concept.

One of the problems I have (pet peeve) are the requirements people make for feats and PrC's.

Like you, the only pick ones that would be directly beneficial. One of the things that balances the 'power' of a later feat, is needing to pick up a 'wasted' feat before-hand. The same is true for many of the PrC's.

All of the feats you require are ones they would want anyway, so all it does is increase their power with the PrC. Throw in Mobility, or Dodge, or something else. maybe require 8lvls in Knowledge(aerodynamics) or somesuch.

There should be aspects in the requirements, *and benefits* that would not be wanted by everyperson taking the PrC. ('course, the benefits should be wanted by *someone*) Maybe one of the lvl bennies could only be good for throwing 2-handed items, or only useful for indoors, or outdoors, etc. etc.

It shouldn't look like a wishlist that someone made up.

IMO.

After you've explained it to me, I agree with you on the requirements. Anyone building a throwing PrC should not make requirements that any throwing based character is going to have anyway. It should be pointed out however, that, though I did not think of it at the time, the Two-Weapon Fighting and Ambidexterity feats are basically wasted since they don't really apply to throwing weapons. Further, some of my benefits are less beneficial than others. Improvised Weapon and Dance! are not particularly useful and other abilities, such as Stream of Blades are only of limited utility. But I will consider what other semi-useful abilities could be added. I like your idea about two-handed throwing weapons, especially since it would not increase the power of the class since it is one based on two-weapon throwing.

Forrester said:
I see someone just saw Daredevil.

Bullseye, anyone? :)

Incidentally, I LOVE this class . . . as a pure fighter class.

My only concern is that it would be taken by rogue/fighters, and I think the sneak attack damage this class combo would get, stacked with the dex modifier to damage and the increased number of daggers . . . grim. Just grim.

I agree totally. The only caveat I can add here is that it's much harder to get someone to lose their dexterity bonus to armor class if you are not there to flank them. Basically one could only use sneak attacks after a successful feint (using the bluff skill) or during the surprise round, in which one can only use partial attacks in any case. It is viable for a rogue to go around feinting an opponent in one round (since it is a standard action) and then unleashing the fury on him in the next round, but it would halve his damage output as opposed to sneak attacking for two rounds.

Further, a pure rogue can easily get at least 6 melee attacks by level 20 by going the TWP, Ambi, Imp TWP, and Great TWP route. And he'll have +10d6 sneak attack damage

A pure rogue can take this class as his ninth level (since he only gains BAB +7 at 10th) meaning that by level 20 he'll have
While if he takes this class he gets 4 regular iterative attacks, 3 off-hand attacks, and one rapid shot attack for a total of seven, and he'll have +5d6 sneak attack damage.

I'll confess to not having done any math, but I think that this means a level 20 Rogue / FoB will not be much more effective than a level 20 Fighter / FoB. I hope you'll forgive me for this voluminous answer.
 

Forrester

First Post
Rahkan said:
I agree totally. The only caveat I can add here is that it's much harder to get someone to lose their dexterity bonus to armor class if you are not there to flank them. Basically one could only use sneak attacks after a successful feint (using the bluff skill) or during the surprise round, in which one can only use partial attacks in any case.

Or, if he's Improved Invisible, he can do it at his leisure from anywhere within 30'. That's the big problem. And he'll be doing a lot more damage than in melee, if he can use his Dex modifier to add to damage -- at high levels that'll probably be +6 to +8, per dagger. That's like an extra 2d6 of damage per attack. And he doesn't have to enter melee, which is always a good call.

I don't know that it would be unbalanced, I just suspect that it might be for an optimally built rogue. But hey, by the time he's pulling that off, mages are casing multiply empowered fireballs around -- so it's probably not that unbalanced after all.

It's certainly neat :).
 

Rahkan

First Post
You are right, I must confess to not having considered Invisibility and I can definately see how that would definately be a problem. But I can't think of any way to fix this that isn't deux ex machina, so I'll just ignore the problem as if it does not exist.
 

Anabstercorian

First Post
I like the basic concept, but you should add a few ranks of Sleight of Hand to represent the training in manual dexterity necessary for this sort of fantastic weaponthrowing skill.
 

Rahkan

First Post
Anabstercorian said:
I like the basic concept, but you should add a few ranks of Sleight of Hand to represent the training in manual dexterity necessary for this sort of fantastic weaponthrowing skill.

Do you mean pickpocketing?
 

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