PrC need crunch inspiration

[drexes]

Okay IMC, there is a arthurian cultured kingdom known as Hundyr. The country has been at war with its aggressive neighbor Nether for many years. Though the Netherians have much larger numbers in thier army they have been forced into a stalemate by the Lion Riders of the Hundyr. These soldiers are elite, fast response cavalry. They use thier powerful mounts to jump into the midst of enemy units and then spring away, sewing havoc in enemy lines. Somewhere in my mind is this image of pikemen set to recieve a charge until these huge armored lions leap over the pikes and begin attacking the rear lines...

Here's what I know. They either ride dire lions or large lions with the warbeast template. I think the mount should be able to use its pounce attack and the knight should be able to fight as well. They don't cast spells. They have a good knowledge of tactics/formations so they should be able to get strategic-type effects for class abilities in addition to the whole mounted combat angle. I aslo don't want them to be worthless when not mounted. So they should be playable.

That said I love this idea, it was one of the first that I came up with for my campaign world but I have never (in two years) been able to come up with some crunch for it. WIll you guys help, please? I'm stuck, and I need to get this one done soon...they may be having some issue with a party soon... PLEASE HELP!

Drexes

 

[ValhallaGH]

Here's what I know. They either ride dire lions or large lions with the warbeast template.

Freaking sweet! You'll probably want the class to grant the mount some extra HD based upon the level of the character, like a Paladin's favored mount or a Druid's animal companion. You might even want to go so far as making them real HD, with the commensurate BAB, save, skill, feat and ability score increases, rather than bonus HD.

I think the mount should be able to use its pounce attack and the knight should be able to fight as well.

See the Ride skill. Lion uses it's Pounce ability while the rider makes a DC 10 ride check, as a free action, to fight while his mount fights.

They don't cast spells. They have a good knowledge of tactics/formations so they should be able to get strategic-type effects for class abilities in addition to the whole mounted combat angle.

Check out some of the Tactics feats from Iron Heroes, especially the War Leader tree. Bonuses to flanking, bonuses for nearby allies, extra damage, extra AoOs per round, the ability to give an ally uncanny dodge and some other very nice abilities are contained in that feat tree. Just slot the feats into the class, and determine how you want to limit the abilities (either per diem or per encounter) and you should end up with some very tactical and effective cavalry.

I aslo don't want them to be worthless when not mounted. So they should be playable.

If their only penalty is not being able to use their Mounted Combat feats while off their mounts, and not having a lion rending everything, then they'll end up on par with a Fighter or Paladin of similar equipage. That ain't bad, though some would claim that it's still worthless.

It is a really neat idea, with a lot of style and flavor. I hope it works out well for you.

 

[Land Outcast]

Hum...
Large Lion Animal companion...
At Last level they get the Dire version...

Bonuses as a Druid of their PrC level+2.

[sblock=Animal Companion Progression]

Class Level   Bonus HD   Nat. Armor Adj.  Str/Dex Adj.   Bonus Tricks   Special
    1-3          +2           +2               +1             2         Link, Evasion
    4-6          +4           +4               +2             3         Devotion
    7-9          +6           +6               +3             4         Multiattack
    10           +8           +8               +4             5         Dire Lion

[/sblock]

what do you think?

[sblock=Lion]Lion Large Animal ; CR 3; HD 5d8+10; hp 32;
Init +3; Spd 40 ft.; Space/Reach 10 ft./5 ft.; AC 15 (-1 size, +3 Dex, +3 natural), touch 12, flat-footed 12;
Base Atk +3; Grp +12; Atk Claw +7 melee (1d4+5); Full Atk 2 claws +7 melee (1d4+5) and bite +2 melee (1d8+2);
SA Pounce, improved grab, rake 1d4+2; SQ Low-light vision, scent; AL Always neutral; SV Fort +6, Ref +7, Will +2;
Str 21, Dex 17, Con 15, Int 2, Wis 12, Cha 6
Skills: Balance +7, Hide +3*, Listen +5, Move Silently +11, Spot +5
Feats: Alertness, Run
Pounce(Ex): If a lion charges a foe, it can make a full attack, including two rake attacks.
Improved Grab(Ex): To use this ability, a lion must hit with its bite attack. It can then attempt to start a grapple as a free action without provoking an attack of opportunity. If it wins the grapple check, it establishes a hold and can rake.
Rake(Ex): Attack bonus +7 melee, damage 1d4+2.
Skills: Lions have a +4 racial bonus on Balance, Hide, and Move Silently checks. *In areas of tall grass or heavy undergrowth, the Hide bonus improves to +12.[/sblock]

[sblock=Dire Lion]Dire Lion Large Animal ; CR 5; HD 8d8+24; hp 60;
Init +2; Spd 40 ft.; Space/Reach 10 ft./5 ft.; AC 15 (-1 size, +2 Dex, +4 natural), touch 11, flat-footed 13;
Base Atk +6; Grp +17; Atk Claw +13 melee (1d6+7); Full Atk 2 claws +13 melee (1d6+7) and bite +7 melee (1d8+3);
SA Improved grab, pounce, rake 1d6+3; SQ Low-light vision, scent; AL Always neutral; SV Fort +9, Ref +8, Will +7;
Str 25, Dex 15, Con 17, Int 2, Wis 12, Cha 10
Skills: Hide +2*, Listen +7, Move Silently +5, Spot +7
Feats: Alertness, Run, Weapon Focus (claw)
Improved Grab(Ex): To use this ability, a dire lion must hit with its bite attack. It can then attempt to start a grapple as a free action without provoking an attack of opportunity. If it wins the grapple check, it establishes a hold and can rake. Pounce (Ex): If a dire lion charges, it can make a full attack, including two rake attacks.
Pounce(Ex): If a dire lion charges, it can make a full attack, including two rake attacks.
Rake(Ex): Attack bonus +12 melee, damage 1d6+3.
Skills: Dire lions have a +4 racial bonus on Hide and Move Silently checks. *In areas of tall grass or heavy undergrowth, the Hide bonus improves to +8.
[/sblock]

 

[drexes]

I think it should probably remain one creature type so that it is always the same creature, noting the two are bonded and all. I was thinking that these particualr lion's would be like thoroughbreds resulting in a higher con score and maybe some increased speed, just like a warhorse gets a +2 to con so too would these. Then I would increase thier speed as the character levels on your chart above. If you make the hd "real" then the creature would not have to become a dire lion at all, it could easily gain improved natural attack as monster feats. What do you think. I think the lion part is to me the easy part, trying to balance it out is the hard part. Also I think using the special mount rules might be more fitting...

Drexes

 

[drexes]

Okay, here's the Lion Mount progression I'm thinking about using.

Level HD Natural AC Strength Special
1--3 2 4 1 Fast Movement +10, Evasion
4--6 4 6 2 Improved Natural Attack (Claw)
7--9 6 8 3 Fast Movement +10, Multiattack
10 8 10 4 Improved Natural Attack (Bite)

I'm also thinking the class will have full BAB, good fort saves, and d10 hit dice. Aftre that I'm still searching

 

[Land Outcast]

Know why I made it be a Dire Lion?

Because if 'tis just an ol' lion with 10 bonus HD, he's screwed...

with my progression (including the "transformation" into Dire version, which I actually envisioned not as changing mount, but only stat improvement)

16d8+48 (120 hp)

humm... maybe use your progression and add at the end the "transformation" of the base stats into Dire Lion... and add somewhere free Improved Toughness

Tht'd be, at 10th level (normal improvements and Dire Lion together):

HD: +11
Natural AC: +11
Strength: +8
Constitution: +2
Special: Improved Natural Attack (Bite)

 

[the Jester]

The dire lion mount by itself is a fantastic benefit. I recommend you making this a lil bit higher level of a prestige class, with maybe a BAB +7 or 8 required to enter... prolly require Mounted Combat, several ranks each of Ride and Handle Animal... hmmm... as to benefits:

*Perhaps skill mastery (Ride)- can 10 take when threatened or under stress.
*Improved Mounted Combat- can sacrifice your first attack of the round to use your Mounted Combat feat twice in a round.
*Perhaps a Lion's Charge ability that lets you full attack when mounted on your lion, gaining uses per day over the course of the class' levels (maybe 1/day at 4th, 2/day at 7th, 3/day at 10th).

Just some ideas.

 

[drexes]

I have written some prelim crunch.

here goes--the quick version...

Requirements:
BAB:+8
Skills: Handle Animal 8 ranks, Ride 10 Ranks
Feats: Mounted Combat, Ride-by Attack, Spirited Charge, and Mounted Archery

BAB: Full
Saves: Good Fort, Bad Reflex, Will

1 Lion Mount, Ride Bonus +2, Lion's Courage
2 Deadly Pounce 1/day
3 Burst of Speed
4 Deadly Pounce 2/day, Ride Bonus +4
5 Lion's Pounce
6 Deadly Pounce 3/day, Full Mounted Attack
7 Ride Bonus +6
8 Deadly Punce 4/day
9 Lion's Roar
10 Unstoppable Pounce 5/day, Ride Bonus +8

Lion Mount: Character gains a Lion mount with warbeast template. Lion gets special abilities as per chart...(still deciding--going to stat up the different kinds and see what its like)

Ride Bonus: Bonus to ride checks.

Lion's Courage: Immunity to fear and fear effects.

Deadly Pounce: Do triple damage with melee weapon at end of pounce (x4 with lance) does not stack with spirited charge.

Burst of Speed: Once per day may spur mount to pounce with double normal distance. If done more than once mount takes 2d6 damage unless it passes a DC 20 Will save

Lion's Pounce: When charging, mounted or unmounted, character may make a full attack. Only the first attack benefits from deadly pounce or unstoppable pounce ability.

Full Mounted Attack: Character may make a full attack even his mount moves more than five feet. The mount may not move more than his normal movement rate.

Lion's Roar: As a full round action, the character and his mount issue a devastating roar. The spell mimics the effects of Leonel's Roar (Book of Exalted Deeds pg 102). Fortitude save DC = 20 + Cha Mod.

Unstoppable Pounce: As deadly pounce except melee weapon damage is multiplied by 4 and lances are multiplied by 5.

I freely admit I stole these abilities from the Cavalier and the Lion of Talisid PrC's, but I think in all they fit the concept rather well. What do you think? I was considering increasing the prereqs even further maybe a level 9-10 entry point...Let me know ok?

Drexes

 

[Arkhandus]

I'd recommend using a normal Lion with the Warbeast template, and giving it a few benefits like a paladin's special mount or a druid's animal companion. Probably, treat it as though it were an animal companion for a druid of half the Lion Rider's character level. Using a dire lion, as others have said, would be a rather powerful benefit for the Lion Rider in and of itself, thus my suggestion for a normal Lion with the Warbeast template.

I would use the Kishi Charger from Oriental Adventures as a baseline, then modify to fit. Remove the abilities One Spirit and Dance With The Fortunes, and also remove the Expertise bonus feat and Deadly Charge ability. Replace with the animal companion benefits for his/her Lion Warbeast, as well as one or two minor tactical benefits for the Lion Rider himself or herself. Kishi Chargers already gain Ride Bonus, Burst Of Speed, and Full Mounted Attack as class features, so they already mostly fit your concept (though focused on horses and lances rather than lions and, well, whatever weaponry you expect the Lion Riders to use). Change the lance-related feat prerequisite to being for the longsword or whatever, as appropriate.

Note that normally, you couldn't full-attack when your mount moves more than 5 feet (IIRC), but the Kishi Charger's Full Mounted Attack negates that restriction.

 

[Land Outcast]

Definetely you can't just make it get benefits equal to or lesser than the Druid's. The druid's animal companion is a sidekick, the Lion Riders of the Hundyr's lions are an integral part of the class.