Pre-WotC editions inquiry

[Animal]

Hello, folks.
My gaming career started with 3E and i don't know much about previous editions except from older computer games. I would like to try out an older edition, but i am somewhat overwhelmed by sheer numbers of those. 1Ed, Blue box, Basic set, AD&D, AD&D2, Rules cyclopedia... These all seem to be separate books with different rules and i really don't feel like having to buy all of them to find out which one i actually like best.
So here's my call to you, veteran players - please explain me how all these books are different from one another and what pros/cons you could name for each of them.

 

[Treebore]

Look up the free PDF's of OSRIC, Labyrinth Lord, Dark Dungeons and Swords and Wizardry and you can see for yourself. Especially OSRIC and Swords and Wizardry, they are pretty loyal "clones", where as LL and DD deviate a little bit, but not in very significant ways, so are still worth checking out for the basics.

 

[Treebore]

Plus the clones are much better written for clarity, and the lay out/organization is much better too.

 

[trancejeremy]

Is S&W really that faithful? One save, ascending AC. It's well done, but it's not really a pure retro clone like OSRIC

But still, good advice to check them out.

The main differences are pretty minor, actually. How well do classes attack, how many hit dice do they have.

Basically the game started with the 3 little brown books (in a white box). There are retro-clones of this, but it's a quite a bit different than what we think of as "D&D"

What we think of D&D came about in the Greyhawk supplement for that game.

D&D + Greyhawk was tweaked a bit and turned into AD&D, but at the same time, a new branch was created, Basic D&D, with did some different things like make race the same as class for non-humans.

Basic D&D had follow up boxed sets, Expert, Companion, Masters, and Immortals, all for higher levels of play, and were eventually collected into one volume, the Rules Cyclopedia (though it had a separate Immortals boxed set)

Advanced D&D got a second edition, which sort of cleaned up the AD&D rules and fixed a few things, but lost a lot of the flavor and introduced some new problems, like unbalanced kits

 

[olshanski]

Yes, I'd pick one clone, personally, I've liked Labyrinth Lord for starters.
Just try playing that with one of the basic adventures that you can get dirt cheap. Everything in all of the pre WoTC adventures is pretty interchangable.

What you'll find with the really early stuff is that without having any defined skills, there is a lot more freedom to just try anything, and there is a lot more onus on the DM to determine whether it works or not, and more often than not it does.

The screwy part is that when you are searching a room, you can't just roll a search check, you usually have to say "I rifle through the desk drawers, checking for secret compartments and false backs"... stuff like that. You never know when treasure will be hidden behind a loose stone or something. Even then, if you don't specifically call out the correct spot a lenient GM may tell you you found the loot anyway.

penultimate bit of advice... in the early games, each GP of treasure you recover was worth an XP. And killing monsters was worth some but not a lot of XP. So you are always better off trying to avoid fights, because the real experience comes from the loot, not from fighting.

Last bit of advice... the early adventures can be deadly, and there is really nothing wrong with hiring a couple of men-at-arms to come along with you, and perhaps a pair of guard dogs and a mule. All those extra bodies are extra targets in case you come across something really dangerous, and you never know when those extra combatants can help your party out. Beware of the SLEEP spell.

 

[JeffB]

The pre WOTC editions are also largely compatible. Not 100%, but you can generally take a module or something from one edition and run it as is or with a very minor amount of work (usually on the fly). Most things convert well.

I have recently started up a mish mash game where I am utilizing S&W Complete as the foundation, but also picking stuff out of the LBBs that did not make it in,as well as Holmes, AD&D, Moldvay/Cook/Marsh and I even have used the 2E Monstrous Manual for stats as needed. I would recommend you do your research but not worry too much about which retro clone to use.

I went back to older systems (I grew up playing the LBBs) as I was starting to get leery of the added work I was having to do as my PF BB game started to get to higher levels and I was pulling things from the core book and bestiary. The final straw was one evening writing up an encounter, I started to look up stats for a monster, then spent some time researching a feat in the stat block I was not familiar with, which I then found out worked with a special attack, which led me to the universal monster rules for the basics of how the special attack works, and then I had to go back to how the feat changed things for the special attack. I have had a bunch o fun with the PF BB and I can certainly DO the work if it necc, but it is so not how I want to spend my prep time.

Now I spend all my time on adventure/fluff/story/fun related prep, not converting/calculating/researching rules.

 

[Treebore]

Good to point out how interchangeable they are. So yeah, pick one to start with, and go from there, if you feel like doing so. As far as clones go, and the originals for that matter, it may be best to go with the order in which the originals came out.

So first go with Swords and Wizardry or the original boxed set with the "LBB's" (Little Brown Books),

Then I would go with OSRIC or the 1E AD&D books. Then I would look at the boxed sets, ideally starting with the Basic boxed set that only covers the first 3 levels. Then go with the full boxed sets going up to Master and even deific levels. Then to see it all put together, check out the Rules Cyclopedia, or the Dark Dungeons clone of it.

For 2E, check out the books, or it now has a clone, called "For Gold and Glory".

After looking at Swords and Wizardry and OSRIC (if your even interested in looking at the clones) then check out Labyrinth Lord. I say this because then you should have a better idea of where what came from. If your not really worried about that kind of thing, then Look at LL before you look at OSRIC/1E AD&D. Including their "Advanced" book, but I don't remember if that one is free as a PDF. I think it is.

Now if you have to buy originals, then fgo with 1E AD&D. Why? Because that is probably the closest to being a "Rosetta Stone" for all of the editions. Not that one is really needed. Like has been said, they are pretty interchangeable.

 

[TheYeti1775]

I would suggest just gettin the 1e reprint books they just re-released.
That would be your cheapest and easiest to completion option you have.

 

[shadowmane]

Another good Basic set clone that is free to download (with pictures and all, as opposed to the free version of LL) is Basic Fantasy RPG. Though it has ascending AC, and separates race and class.

 

[Libramarian]

I think you should go for the real deal rather than a retroclone. All of the original editions are perfectly playable. The only situation where I would recommend a retroclone would be if the original edition is stupidly expensive. So if you want to play original D&D, you may have to play a retroclone, unless you have a Benjamin burning a hole in your pocket. But then at the same time, the OD&D retroclones have generally the least fidelity to their source material.

I would recommend either Basic D&D (the version written by Moldvay, or the version written by Mentzer -- choose based on which cover art you like best) or AD&D 1. Basic D&D is simpler and easier to learn, but it may not have enough character options to interest your players for very long. For example, in Basic D&D if you choose a demihuman race, you don't get to choose a class. They have a racial class: Elves are like Fighters/Magic-Users, Dwarves and Halflings are Fighters with a few special abilities.

1e has more interesting character options, spells, and magic items. However, opinions are divided on whether the increased complexity in combat and the social systems is worth the trouble. If you want to try playing 1e by the book, then I would budget like...a month to learn the game. Whereas with Basic D&D you can be playing next week.

AD&D 2 is an option...it doesn't seem to get as much love among pre-WotC edition fans, because the flavor and focus of the game is weaker, as are the adventure modules. It's the system used in the old computer games you mention though. If you were trying to recreate the character options from the Baldur's Gate games, then I would say 2e (and also that that sounds like a cool campaign).

I would suggest just gettin the 1e reprint books they just re-released.
That would be your cheapest and easiest to completion option you have.

With a bit of patience you can get a set of 1e books on eBay for less than the price of 1 reprint book.

Actually I just saw a PHB, MM, MM2, FF and 2 DMGs go for $21.

You do have to be careful with used copies though. The binding is usually fine but make sure to see some pictures of the inside to look for water damage and/or mold. Never buy an old book that's been wet. Other than that used copies are definitely the best option economically.