Preliminary idea: Humanoid monster Hit Point-shaving.

[Rachel]

Pursuant to this thread, http://www.enworld.org/forum/4e-fan...3-hit-points-study-humanoids.html#post5096933 ,

toying with a pet idea on hp shaving for humanoids:

Normal humanoid monsters: Subtract hp equal to level x2
(I.e. a lvl 9 normal humanoid loses 18hp off it's total)

Elite humanoids: Subtract hp equal to level x3
(I.e. a lvl 9 elite humanoid loses 27hp off it's total)

Solos: Subtract hp equal to level x4
(I.e. a lvl 9 solo humanoid loses 36hp off it's total)

Need to do a hard study on the overall effect of this. Still in progress!
Feedback always welcomed.

 

[Benlo]

If it fits your style, this should be okay, but keep in mind this will make Humanoids very delicate compared to what the designers had in mind, so don't be surprised if Barbarians and Sorcerers kill them very quickly.

This would probably work alright if you guys enjoy fighting mobs and killing them by the dozen, but I myself wouldn't use this. Nothing against it, I just usually find humanoid monsters to be the most interesting.

 

[Rachel]

Thnx for responding.

To encapsulate (big fun word), the hp shaving comes from my personal preference that humanoids should only have so many hp, and that RAW they have too many in alot of cases (although I don't mind magical beasts and such having crazy hp). I learned from my previous thread that factoring in Healing Surges and certain other factors that the humanoids are not quite as crazy as I initially thought. Still, I do want to shave a few points off, but in a way as to not have to do each monster *individually*. So far this idea Im posting here is one way to *blanket* shave humanoid monster hp....

 

[eriktheguy]

Ah, you've been discussing this one for awhile now. Glad to see you came up with a concise rule for it.
I've always been nerfing enemy HP and upping their damage in my campaigns to make fights go fast.
Are you going to use more humanoid monsters, give them more damage, or just leave everything else as is?
I'm thinking I will be using this one in my sessions. My players do like being able to chop through hordes of goblins at a time, while knowing that they would have to put some real damage on giant beasts etc.

 

[Zinovia]

Many DM's reduce the HP of all enemies, as well as increasing their damage output. This helps speed up encounters, but keeps the enemies dangerous. I wouldn't pick one monster type to reduce hit points on while leaving the others alone. Perhaps the lack of verisimilitude bothers you with humanoids because of the discrepancy between character HP and monster HP, but it is a feature of 4E that the rules for characters and the rules for creatures you fight aren't the same. You aren't supposed to worry about the fact that the human NPC bad guy has more HP than your fighter - it's just the way the system works.

If it bothers you feel free to change it, but I'd recommend making your changes to monster HP apply across the board rather than singling out humanoids.

 

[Rachel]

If it bothers you feel free to change it, but I'd recommend making your changes to monster HP apply across the board rather than singling out humanoids.

Hi Zin.

I truly respect your opinion, and you always have good comments to make. I also respect this opinion, but I have singled out humanoids b/c I have no problem imagining magical beasts and such having crazy hp. It's a personal choice of the flavor sort, and I won't be applying it across-the-board. But thnx for weighing in.

 

[Rachel]

Are you going to use more humanoid monsters, give them more damage, or just leave everything else as is?

I want to keep things simple as possible so I'll likely keep everything else as-is (although also upping their damage seems popular with many people).

I'm thinking I will be using this one in my sessions.

Glad you like it and that it could help.

 

[Saeviomagy]

Are you going to do something to make it up to humanoids? Because otherwise the blanket result of this change is:

humanoids become slightly easier to kill compared with other monsters of the same XP budget.

 

[eriktheguy]

Are you going to do something to make it up to humanoids? Because otherwise the blanket result of this change is:

humanoids become slightly easier to kill compared with other monsters of the same XP budget.

Peh, who uses XP anymore!
I just make up encounters to almost kill my PCs and then tell them to level when I feel like it.

 

[Fanaelialae]

As it stands, at low levels your change is virtually imperceptible (no one will notice a kobold's hp change from 27 to 25) whereas at high levels humanoids become the easy mode monster every party hopes to face (a level 30 with 270 hp is reduced to 210, losing almost 1/4 of it's hp and making that creature noticeably squishier). At the very least, assuming you use xp, you might want to reduce the humanoids' xp values by an amount proportional to the hp lost (once that loss becomes noticeable).

An alternative, if you want to keep humanoids relatively balanced against groups of non-humanoids while still reducing their hp, would be to apply the following house rule to humanoid monsters:

http://www.enworld.org/forum/4e-fan-creations-house-rules/250441-my-grind-fix-half-hp-2-3-xp.html

Under those rules, humanoids have half the hp of their non-humanoid counterparts, but are typically encountered in (50%) larger groups to make up for it. They're squishy, but their ability to zerg makes them fairly dangerous.

I've mixed those 2/3 xp mooks with normal monsters in my games and never encountered any serious problems. They play a bit differently (AoE controllers are more relevant against them while defenders are less), but they work fine IME.