Pretending to be a Paladin

[drothgery]

I think this quote sums up my main problem with the approach that's been mentioned by many in this thread:

In my eyes, a paladin is not common.

Paladins don't need to be commonplace for people to have a good idea of what they can do. There just need to be enough of them that the common people know they are real, not just legends.

It's similar to vampires in the World of Darkness : IIRC, the ratio there is 1 vampire for every 10,000 common persons.
I wish D&D had this kind of guideline, so that people don't (quite reasonably) begin to assume that adventurers are the norm.

I think if that's the published guideline, WW ought to rework it and tone things down a lot. That means there's six vampires for every player in the NFL, nearly 30,000 vampires in the US, and 600,000 vampires in quasi-early 21st-century earth.

Here's a general question for everyone:
How would Village X even know he was a paladin?

Well, I had a paladin who was a member of a very specific knightly order, which had specific dress code. Her order was an arm of the lawful good church that was the state religion in her native country. If she was "in uniform" -- and she usually was -- then she was pretty much walking around wearing a neon sign that said "paladin" to anyone who recognized the "uniform" -- pretty much anyone from her home country, or any other educated or well-travelled person. If something like this doesn't exist in the game world Castellan's playing in, then it's much more difficult to impersonate a paladin.

Castellan - are you actually planning on playing a thief who will collect money in a church's (or DIETIES) name and keep it for himself? He's planning on trying to fake out individuals who should know better (i.e. people who have divination and Detect spells)?

No one's going to use divinations or detection spells if he's sufficiently good at the act. And I can't see deities taking a direct hand in things unless he's causing serious problems for the church. Even then, in settings with more remote deities (like Eberron), or deities that don't care much about their churches one way or the other, deities still might not step in.

 

[FoolishFrost]

Considering that most churches are heavy into the face-saving thing...

If he just gets a little too popular, I can see him suddenly getting called into a meeting at the high temple, have the realities of the situation explained to him.

The situation is that the pretty lady in the corner is a priestess.

She loves the church more than anything.

If people find out that you're NOT a paladin, then it might hurt the church's reputation.

That would make her sad.

She would then proceed to get her mace, cast some very unseemly spells, and make the fake paladin into a REAL angel!

Isn't that nice!

Oh, and she'll be travelling with you a while. Don't mind that spell she's casting. It just allows her to know your current location and state of mind at all times.

You're going to LOVE being a paladin! I just know it!

Gom-Bye now!

 

[rounser]

No offense, but you go right on ahead and game in a world that's like the real world.

The point was that fantasy people are assumed to be no dumber or unwise than real-world people. They'd react to the presence of maneaters by having a strong memory for details and swiftly relaying gossip which their survival might depend on as well.

I'll happily game in a world where monsters are the stuff of legends (not textbooks), and no normal person has had much dealings with them or magic.

Then your game must have a lot less magic and monsters than the core rules serving suggestions, because in the world of D&D described by the implied setting (wandering encounter tables, dungeons and all), monsters aren't just in legends...they're in the woods, possibly even in the logpile. "No normal person has had dealings with them or magic" is a long way removed from what even town NPC generating suggests, let alone wandering encounter tables.*

This may come down to our assumptions about the D&D implied setting being different (or overridden by personal preference, or a specific setting). For instance, if an adventurer mentions that a dragon has been seen in the area, do your locals scoff and say they're the stuff of fairytales? My understanding of the D&D commoner is that they'd take the threat seriously and start nervously eyeing the skies. Either one could be more "official", but I know which one I find easier to believe.

*: Followed through to logical conclusion of the number of tough monsters about and we end up with universally sacked villages, dead farmers, and all travellers ending up being eaten. So in order to suspend disbelief, it's probably best not thought too hard about. (This is what rubs me the wrong way about Eberron trying to suss out the implications of magic - you don't want to go there, because you won't like where pulling back the curtain ultimately leads you, and going halfway and stopping is worse for suspension of disbelief than not going there at all.)

 

[Voadam]

I think this quote sums up my main problem with the approach that's been mentioned by many in this thread:

In my eyes, a paladin is not common.

Having a paladin as commonplace not only strains my believability from a human psychology point of view (e.g. there are DAMN few people that are willing to lay their lives down for the common Good), but it also completely skews the balance of normal vs spectacular beings (i.e. if paladins are common, than so are anti-paladins, therefore the extremes of personality are rendered too familiar).

It is made quite plain in the conventions of the class that paladins are the rarest of breeds.
If they were as common as other classes, than everything written about them is suspect. I know that us roleplayers may choose them just as often as, say, a Barbarian, but that doesn't change the fact that within the genre, they should be the rarest.
Remember, in D&D we are playing (what should be) a very rare individual : an adventurer. To make them (or trolls for that matter) a common sight in everyday life is to skew the dynamics of the world to the breaking point (for me).
It's similar to vampires in the World of Darkness : IIRC, the ratio there is 1 vampire for every 10,000 common persons.
I wish D&D had this kind of guideline, so that people don't (quite reasonably) begin to assume that adventurers are the norm.

Ok so how many paladins are there in a typical D&D world?

Are they so rare that everyone has heard of them as individuals (Joan of Arc, Sir Galahad, Roland) or in the magical default of a standard D&D world where the gods power their followers are they more common (say all the templars, hospitallars, etc.).

In greyhawk there is a LG country devoted to a good god, the Theocracy of the pale. Is is unreasonable for them to have a knightly order of paladins? If there are only a few individual paladins in the world then yes, the orders would be filled with LG or not fighters. However it is not unreasonable for there to be enough of them to fill out a few knightly orders in the world.

If paladins are more common than a few individuals, if they are common enough to have a knightly order of them, then it is reasonable for their outwardly displayed common powers to be known and associated with the term paladin.

It all depends on how many you place in your world.

 

[tensen]

Cons for Bard: You can't really use your main bardic ability to inspire the party members with your bard song. I guess maybe you could pass this off as that you are mechanical wise, a bard/paladin. But the ploy will be greatly hindered, I think.

Actually mechanics wise it is a bonus. It need not be a song that the bard is using. They could be using their voice to tell you a great vioctorious battle, or tell you how you will win.. giving you the bonus.. and in fact seemingly more like a paladin.

 

[tensen]

It could even be a godly gift for true "paladins" of a prankster, to con people is to please Loki!!!!

Ooh ooh. Great idea.
A rogue pretending to be a paladin... but they are a follower of Loki. So at some point they get the abilities of a paladin, because thats what Loki thinks a Paladin should actually be. Now that would be a Prestige Paladin of sorts.
Of course being Loki, you'd have to make their powers be intermittant <grin>.

 

[random user]

There are a number of ways you could explain in-game why a person would know what a paladin did. This person is a 5th level character, so he isn't some newbie.

Perhaps he's adventured with a paladin before. Paladins aren't know to be tight-lipped or secretive about their faith or abilities, so if this rogue asked the paladin "What abilities does your god give you?" the paladin will most likely answer honestly and completely, especially if he thinks there is any chance to convert the rogue (who may be pretending to be a ranger or a repenting rogue etc) to his religion.

As to the the horse issue, there are a number of ways to explain that as well. The one that initially came to mind for me is, "I had a heroic and noble horse, but alas I was unable to prevent his death a year ago. While I know I could simply summon another one, my heart still feels his loss, and seeing another equine so similar to my noble steed would pain me too much still."

Just my 2cp