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Preview: December and Beyond

Korgoth

First Post
I like the Essentials books so far, and have seen nothing to make me think that I won't like this one.

I think they made a good choice by making a Necromancer a Mage build. It attaches the subclass to a class that will be supported, and it prevents class bloat. But I'm one of those who doesn't like a billion classes with a zillion races and a trillion options. I'm a less is more type, so the whole thrust of Essentials appeals to me.

It's funny, because I used to think 4E was terrible, but Essentials has me a bit excited about it (and also playing in a very unconventional 4E game, though even then it's pretty grindy when the fighting starts).
 

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Aegeri

First Post
I actually like nearly all of the essentials builds I've seen, except the Knight and have to admit that essentials has been a solid direction for the game. I personally feel that Wizards have realized they are pretty much utterly screwed when it comes to supporting billions of classes. By limiting what new classes are, they benefit from existing support and then can spin off in their own direction to make them distinct through class features.

I am honestly sorry to say that arguments like "Blackguards can use raddiiaaanntttt!" and "Necromancers are screwed because of necrotic resistance" just fail to make sense. For one, the Pyromancer - if you need a direct comparison - at level 1 flat out ignores fire resistance and later immunity. I mean Wizards haven't made some great decisions but they aren't stupid clearly. Additionally some of these assumptions don't match 4Es fluff, which has been pretty careful to note that radiant is not the good energy type and neither is necrotic the bad energy type. They're just more closely associated with certain things: Not alignment.

If this is a full class book there might be about 5 builds or so in the book. We've seen two mage schools (controllers undoubtably) and a striker. We have no leader or defender, who could have any kind of class or features. Personally I am actually completely fine will culling power source and class bloat, instead making a series of things that can benefit from the limited amount of support they can clearly give out. I'm willing to abandon the Runepriest/Seeker if it means they can make classes and support them out of what they already have beyond those two.
 
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I'm A Banana

Potassium-Rich
It's also true that regardless of a Necromancer wizard build, if there's enough buzz for it, they might make a "True Necromancer" full class at some point. But I'm not so sure what's so unique about the Necromancer that isn't unique about the Illusionist, Enchanter, or Conjurer, or Evoker. Or why any basic wizard shouldn't be able to grab some Necromancy powers if they wanted.

Anyway, my personal "first draft" take on a full-fledged Necromancer "Essentials" class would be kind of like this:

[sblock=Necromancer]
Necromancer
I will live forever, with your bones as my servants...

CLASS TRAITS
Role: Leader. Your mysteries enhance your allies at the cost of your enemies, draining your foes to empower those who protect you. Your secondary roles include Striker and Controller, depending on your power selection.
Power Source: Shadow. You have replaced a part of your soul with shadow, becoming a thing on the path to Undeath.
Key Abilities: Constitution, Intelligence, Wisdom

Armor Proficiencies: Cloth, Leather
Weapon Proficiencies: Simple melee, Simple ranged.
Implements: Orb, Rod, Tome.
Bonus to Defense: +1 Fortitude, +1 Will

Hit Points at First Level: 10 + Constitution Score
Hit Points Per Level Gained: 5
Healing Surges Per Day: 6 + Constitution Modifier

Trained Skills: Arcana and Religion. From the class list below, choose 3 more trained skills at first level. Class Skills: Endurance (Con), Heal (Wis), History (Int), Insight (Wis), Intimidate (Cha), Stealth (Dex)

Class Features: Life Drain, Undead Minion
Necromancers are legendary practicioners of dark, nefarious magic. Feared by most, shunned by the knowledgable, and seen as wicked, vain, corrupt, and hubristic, they exemplify the power of magic over life and death. Though most consider them vile villains fit only to be destroyed, the truth is that some necromancers practice the Art not out of a seething desire for world domination, but out of a complex amalgam of reasons. Some necromancers simply study the body in a cold, scientific way, treating the corpse as a machine of bone and sinew. Others seek to bring back loved ones that they have lost, plumbing dark magic to undo what fate has done. Still others embrace the dark magic out of fear of their own mortality, looking to extend their life, always one step ahead of the reaper nipping at their heels.

Necromancers delve into ancient ruins to seek lost knowledge and obscure, hidden lore, to discover the mistakes of the villains and failures who have gone before in the hopes that they will not become like them, or at least, that they will not fail.

Necromancers are leaders in the sense that they help their allies, but their main purpose is to benefit themselves. Allies are a means to that: the better the team is, the more likely success comes to the Necromancer. Necromancers fight at range, using their minions to protect themselves and control their enemies, and employing their life-draining magic to keep their allies (and themselves) up and operational.

NECROMANCER CLASS FEATURES
LIFE DRAIN
While many leaders employ powerful words of healing, Necromancers seize the animating force of their foes, and redistribute it as necessary.

Life Drain [Necromancer Utility]
With a simple gesture, you steal the life of your foes.
At-Will (Special) * Healing
Immediate Reaction; Ranged :ranged: 10
Trigger: A creature within range becomes bloodied or reduced to 0 hp.
Effect: The creature is dealt additional damage equal to your Constitution modifier. An ally within range can spend a healing surge, and recover additional HP equal to the damage you just dealt.
Special: You can use this power only once on any enemy. Additional damage becomes 2 x Con Mod @ 6th level; 3 x Con Mod @ 11th level; 4 x Con Mod @ 16th level; 5 x Con Mod @ 21st level; 6 x Con Mod @ 25th level

UNDEAD MINION
A Necromancer creates and uses undead minions from the corpses she and her allies make. These minions do not last long, but they serve with the mindless, reckless obedience of an automaton ruled only by the hunger of death and the necromancer's strong magic.

At first level, you can create Zombie Minions. As you gain levels, you can create more powerful Minions. Minions obey your commands until they are destroyed, or something stops them.

In order to create a Minion, you need a freshly killed corpse, and you need to take a Short Rest, and spend a Healing Surge for each Minion you want to create. Healing surges spent in this way do not heal any of your HP. At the end of the Short Rest, the Minion is up and operational, and remains so until you take an Extended Rest, or until it is destroyed.

Minion Statistics: Minions have 1 hp each, and missed attacks do not damage them. Their Defenses are 10 + half your level + your Constitution (Fortitude), Wisdom (Willpower), or Intelligence (Reflex) modifier, with their AC being 2 higher than their Reflex Defense. They have a single basic attack against AC using your basic attack roll that deals 1d8+half your level damage (2d8 @ 11th level, 3d8 @ 21st level) and you can command them to execute this attack, or to move 6 squares, as a Minor action. Otherwise, they will not act. A minion can, however, be used as the origin point for any power you use, as if you were standing in the square the minion occupies.

Minions As You Level Up:
  • Zombie Minion (Level 1): They can only move 3 squares, but their attacks deal additional damage equal to your Constitution modifier, and they have Resist 5 All and +2 Fortitude
  • Skeleton Minion (Level 6): They gain +2 Reflex, and they gain a +1 bonus to attack rolls for each additional skeleton minion adjacent to them when they attack.
  • Ghoul Minion (Level 11): They gain +2 Fortitude, and once per encounter, an enemy they hit is damaged and becomes Immobilized (save ends). While immobilized and next to a Ghoul Minion, the enemy is dealt damage equal to your Constitution modifier on your turn.
  • Wraith Minion (Level 16): They gain +2 Reflex, and can Fly 6 squares when you spend a Minor action to move them. When they are damaged, they can roll a saving throw to negate the damage.
  • Mummy Minion (Level 21): They gain +2 Willpower, and once per encounter, an enemy the hit is damaged and becomes infected. They are dealt Ongiong Poison damage equal to your Wisdom modifier (save ends), and each time they are dealt this damage, all creatures adjacent to them are dealt this damage as well.
  • Vampire Floozy (Level 26): They gain +2 Willpower, and once per encounter, they can make a ranged attack at range 10 that does not inflict damage, but instead Dominates the target (save ends).

NECROMANCER POWERS
Three basic themes (plus utilities), but people can choose amongst them freely:
  • Life-Stealing Powers (Con-based): When these hit an enemy, an ally can gain a related benefit. They deal damage, an ally gains HP (or temp HP). They inflict an attack penalty, an ally gains an attack bonus. They inflict a movement penalty, an ally can move.
  • Fear And Dread (Control; Wis-based): Various fear effects: penalties, pushes, prones, stuns, etc. Deals Psychic damage. Keeps the Necro at a distance, and his allies up close.
  • Enervation And Necrotic (Strike; Int-based): Various raw damage effects: blasts, bursts, ranged attacks, necrotic damage, sometimes with penalties attached. Also enhances ally/minion attacks with damage.
  • Undead Qualities and Minion Buffs (Utilities): Grant undead qualities (like necrotic resistance, poison resistance, insubstantial, Resist All) to party members and minions; also buffs that just help minions. Necro is a "selfish" class, but others can benefit from her.

NECROMANCER FEATS
Some ideas for basic enhancements
  • MORE MINIONS!: Create +1/+2/+3 minions with a healing surge.
  • STRONGER MINIONS!: More durable, more HP, more damage. This should be limited: necros can add damage almost as fast as a Fighter can, and though it is less, the main limit on it is that it's easy for enemies to get rid of it.
  • DIFFERENT MINIONS!: Alternate minions are good.
  • Better Healing: Necros can heal a lot in battles, but its limited by their enemies, so they need more reliable sources. E.G.: if they're fighting a Solo, that's only two heals. A lot of this is contained in their Con-based powers, but we can throw a few kickers in, bonus HP's, temp HP's, Damage Resist, Defense Buffs, etc. that ride on their Life Drain.
  • Body Mods: Let the necro gain undead traits via feats.
  • PP: Seeker of the Eternal: Lots of ways to come back from the dead.
  • ED: Lich: Oh hai never-dying.

Design Notes
  • They're a CON-based class with Int/Wis secondaries. They thus have deliberately low HP and surge values, making them come out rather middling in the end. Still, they should be kinda "tough" for a Squshy Mage.
  • Two main class features let them fill their Leader role and fill the classic Necromancer image.
  • Life Drain should be useful in all combats, but it'll be more useful the more things there are dying. That's flavorful and interesting, but it probably needs some crash-course playtesting to make sure that minion battles aren't cakewalks with healing raining from the heavens and solo battles aren't deserts without a drop of heals. Possibly solved with "creature" language: Necros can drain allies that are getting beat down for heals for allies that are still up (which his hilarious, but leaves the party Defender up only 1 healing surge after being Life Drain'd on himself, which is weak heals. It's OK to be weak heals, but we need to still be effective w/ other healers.).
  • Minions are variously strikery (with the minor action damage and some of their effects) and controllery (with the space they occupy and some of their effects). Gotta make sure the damage remains not-too-much, so it could probably use some playtesting to make sure we don't munch out flanking blows. Action Economy probably largely limits this: it takes a Minor action to move or attack, meaning its going to be an every other round thing in a fluid combat.

Well, that's the Rough Draft, anyway.
[/sblock]
 

Malisteen

First Post
Honestly, I wasn't happy when wizard re-absorbed enchantment & illusion, either. I was hoping for a more dedicated class along the lines of the 3.5 beguiler. It's not that I approved of the reabsorbtion of other schools, and it's not that necromancy is more worthy of its own class, it's just closer to my heart.

And it's not just the necromancy either. If necromancy was a mage school, but two or three other shadow concepts were getting the full class treatment I could live with it. It's the complete lack of actual shadow classes in the heroes of shadow book that's such a blow.
 

Dausuul

Legend
Ugh.

Sorry, if this comes off a bit harsh. I've had this conversation before. Many times. Why is it that most people's brains only work in a binary way when it comes to necromancy?

There is more grey area between "BBEG that Raises the Dead and tosses Fear mojo" and "shiny cleric of light" and I think that there is room to explore that with necromancy.

I think there is a very small area of grey, largely defined by "spells that harm to heal"--either spells that drain life from one creature to grant it to another, or spells that inflict some form of damage in order to remove an affliction. I suppose you could have a necromancer who specializes in this type of magic.

Beyond that, I don't see where the grey lies. There's magic that makes undead and afflicts the living, which is necromancy. There's magic that destroys undead and heals the living, which is traditional clerical magic. They're direct opposites. If you want to draw on both, that's why we have multiclassing.

I get a little tired of watching WotC writers--and TSR writers starting with 2E--twist themselves into pretzels trying to explain how yes, you really can be a good guy version of (evil concept). I mean, heroic blackguards? Really?

Edited to add: Also, I think necromancy would have made more sense as a warlock pact. If healing magic comes from the gods, shouldn't necromantic magic come from the gods' opposite numbers in the Abyss? And powering up each time you kill something is a perfect fit for necromancy--in fact, your pact boon could be, "Every time you kill something, its corpse animates as a minion."
 
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Osgood

Hero
Count me among those who are disappointed to see this book taking the Essentials route. I would much rather see new classes based on shadow than a hint of shadow flavor for martial, divine or arcane characters. I was hoping to see a hexblade class (not some melee build for warlocks) since this book was announced way back. At the very least I wish they had supported both Classic 4e and Essentials rather than marginalize part of their customer base.
 

Malisteen

First Post
I for one don't mind the 'essentials-ness' of the book. Just the lack of any actual shadow classes for the shadow power source. Did necromancer have to be it's own class? No. Was it it's own class in previous editions? Not particularly.

People like to point to the Seeker and Runepriest, both duds I'll admit, and say 'we have too many classes, why would you want any more?

I would instead point to the Warlord and the Shaman. Were either their own class in previous editions? Not particularly. Did they have to be new classes? No, the warlord could have been a leader-secondary build of fighter, and the Shaman could have been a summoning-oriented build of druid. Less class glut, right? And yet the Warlord and the Shaman are two of the coolest classes in 4e, they really brought something new to the table and expanded the game. Heck, were it not for how cool the Warlord is, I might never have tried 4e in the first place. I'd gladly accept the cost of having a few more Seekers and Runepriests if it meant we also got more Warlords and Shamen.

That's what HoS costs us. HoS will come and go, and no it won't hurt the game. But it won't expand the game, either. It doesn't enable any new characters that we couldn't already play, it doesn't add anything more meaningful then a few new powers for the wizard (because if there's anything the wizard needs, its more powers). It gives us nothing, and all it cost was any potential the Shadow power source might have had to add anything cool or new or unique to the D&D experience.
 
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Nemesis Destiny

Adventurer
I for one don't mind the 'essentials-ness' of the book. Just the lack of any actual shadow classes for the shadow power source. Did necromancer have to be it's own class? No. Was it it's own class in previous editions? Not particularly.

People like to point to the Seeker and Runepriest, both duds I'll admit, and say 'we have too many classes, why would you want any more?

I would instead point to the Warlord and the Shaman. Were either their own class in previous editions? Not particularly. Did they have to be new classes? No, the warlord could have been a leader-secondary build of fighter, and the Shaman could have been a summoning-oriented build of druid. Less class glut, right? And yet the Warlord and the Shaman are too of the coolest classes in 4e, they really brought something new to the table and expanded the game. I'd gladly accept the cost of having a few more Seekers and Runepriests if it meant we also got more Warlords and Shamen.

That's what HoS costs us. HoS will come and go, and no it won't hurt the game. But it won't expand the game, either. It doesn't enable any new characters that we couldn't already play, it doesn't add anything more meaningful then a few new powers for the wizard (because if there's anything the wizard needs, its more powers). It gives us nothing, and all it cost was any potential the Shadow power source might have had to add anything cool or new or unique to the D&D experience.
Do you actually know for certain that there won't be any new classes in this book?

The back-cover-copy from Amazon is annoyingly ambiguous on the matter, so unless you have some inside scoop, other than this miniscule preview, please share.

And perhaps, like some of the essentials builds, the builds presented in HoS might just be so different from the "parent" class as to be almost unrecognizable, like the Slayer, or Thief. Even the Knight, while it plays similarly to a Guardian Fighter, uses completely different mechanics, while the other two, while belonging to their respective classes, play nothing like their 4e predecessors.

I hear your disappointment. I've been there with products. We all likely have. That said, I still think you're overreacting. Wait and see. Maybe you'll be pleasantly surprised. If not, you can always houserule, go to 3PPs, or as you hinted previously, find a different game system. Heck, you could even go back to 3.x/PF if you find those more to your liking for Shadow-flavoured things.
 

Malisteen

First Post
Sadly PF is pretty much a void for me, while 3.5, which had tons stuff for me (Shadowcaster, Beguiler, Dread Necromancer, Ninja, Necrocarnate, and shadow-hand focused Swordsage all leap immediately to mind), simply isn't played anymore from what I can tell.

I will still look this book through in the bookstore before purchase, and if it surprises me then great, I'll gladly eat my words. But that doesn't stop this preview from being titanically disappointing.

As for whether the book has any actual classes not mentioned yet - the fact that the back cover doesn't mention anything, and that none was mentioned in this preview, is pretty clear. In this absence of evidence most certainly is evidence of absence.

Again, if I'm wrong I will gladly eat my words. But I'm not going to ignore the writing on the wall. I mean it's right there. Plus, while it's almost certainly too late to change anything, it isn't absolutely certainly too late to change anything. What good is complaining when the book is already out and there's nothing that can be done.

And before you say I shouldn't just be whining here, I've sent emails to WotC and to one of the writers of this book (the one who's email I could find) on this subject as well.
 

Nemesis Destiny

Adventurer
Sadly PF is pretty much a void for me, while 3.5, which had tons stuff for me (Shadowcaster, Beguiler, Dread Necromancer, Ninja, Necrocarnate, and shadow-hand focused Swordsage all leap immediately to mind), simply isn't played anymore from what I can tell.
Tosh. There are still folks happily playing 1e & 2e on a regular basis.

For the record, while I liked, nay, loved the Beguiler, I thought that the Dread Necromancer and Ninja were terrible. Just way too cheesy. I have no experience with the others you mention. I suspect that by the time they were released, I had all but given up on 3.x.

As for whether the book has any actual classes not mentioned yet - the fact that the back cover doesn't mention anything, and that none was mentioned in this preview, is pretty clear. In this absence of evidence most certainly is evidence of absence.
Using logical fallacies to support your position isn't helping your case.

All I want out of it are some good thematic spells that aren't exclusively fear and undead based (I will likely be let down but it's too early to tell), and the Necromancer Mage benefits. I am curious to see how they get around the fact that Necrotic damage is mechanically subpar at the best of times. I have my own houseruled solution, but I want to see how it balances against what, if anything, they come up with.

Again, if I'm wrong I will gladly eat my words. But I'm not going to ignore the writing on the wall. I mean it's right there. Plus, while it's almost certainly too late to change anything, it isn't absolutely certainly too late to change anything. What good is complaining when the book is already out and there's nothing that can be done.

And before you say I shouldn't just be whining here, I've sent emails to WotC and to one of the writers of this book (the one who's email I could find) on this subject as well.
A scant four months before shelf date seems like too late, but then I don't work in the publishing industry, so I can't say for sure. That said, I wish you luck in your quest.
 

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