Previewing the new XP system

[Morrus]

This is what you can expect to see in the next playtest update (the one which will go out to Kickstarter backers only, just after the KS ends). The shot below is from O.L.D., but N.E.W. works exactly the same way.



A one-tier increase is roughly equivalent to the completion of a 5-grade tradition, at least for the first tier (not counting any starting tradition grades). Advancing a tradition grade is - generally - more cost effective than buying a new skill and a new attribute piecemeal, and grants you a new ability.

Tiers are expected to take quite some time to progress.

 

[Khaalis]

Quick question, and I may have missed this in the XP chapter or just don't remember reading it, and not sure if I asked this before or not, its been a long 12 hour shift...

What exactly do you get when you buy a new grade (2+) in a tradition?

 

[Morrus]

You get a skill, the attribute increases, and a new ability.

 

[docdoom77]

This is what you can expect to see in the next playtest update (the one which will go out to Kickstarter backers only, just after the KS ends). The shot below is from O.L.D., but N.E.W. works exactly the same way.

Cool stuff Morrus. Looks simple and useful. I like the different progression charts.

Off the top of my head, I wonder if Attributes shouldn't be more expensive in relation to skills, but I have no data to back it up, just a feeling.

 

[Khaalis]

Thanks Morrus. Makes much more sense now.

So basically, a PC focused on their primary Tradition is going to be Grade III when they hit Tier 2. (2K XP for Grade 2, 3K XP for Tier 3).

I also notice it is ridiculously Much more economical to buy Tradition Grades than individual bumps, at least at early grades. Is that intended?

Another question... Did you intend for Changing Your Character Trait to cost Double in the Fast Progression?
[MENTION=69015]DocDoom[/MENTION]
I think the costs are already Fairly steep.

For skills, you can't even by a new rank in a skill till Tier 2.
* Tier 2 (max +1 rank) = +1 die to a specific "skill" activity (i.e. Stealth); total cost = 200 XP
* Tier 3 (max +2 ranks) = +2 dice ; total cost = 500 XP
* Tier 4 (max +3 ranks) = +3 dice; total cost = 900 XP

Vs. Increasing AGI (Assume starting AGI 4)
* +1 die to AGI = 1,000XP

So currently, a +1 AGI already costs more than maxing out a specific skill at Tier 4.

This also brings me back to my question about Tradition Grades. For that same 1,000 XP I could instead get Grade I in Burglar and get Stealth, +6 to Attributes (including +2 AGI), and the Grade 1 ability.

The rest of the costs seem exorbitantly high compared to Grades. Unless the point is to push people towards Tradition Grades over smaller improvements.

 

[Morrus]

Yes, the idea is to encourage traditions because they're more thematic, while allowing for the one-off purchase of additional items. A tradition grade will always be the better deal, but sometimes you might just want one specific thing.

 

[docdoom77]

Thanks Morrus. Makes much more sense now.

So basically, a PC focused on their primary Tradition is going to be Grade III when they hit Tier 2. (2K XP for Grade 2, 3K XP for Tier 3).

I also notice it is ridiculously Much more economical to buy Tradition Grades than individual bumps, at least at early grades. Is that intended?

Another question... Did you intend for Changing Your Character Trait to cost Double in the Fast Progression?

@DocDoom
I think the costs are already Fairly steep.

For skills, you can't even by a new rank in a skill till Tier 2.
* Tier 2 (max +1 rank) = +1 die to a specific "skill" activity (i.e. Stealth); total cost = 200 XP
* Tier 3 (max +2 ranks) = +2 dice ; total cost = 500 XP
* Tier 4 (max +3 ranks) = +3 dice; total cost = 900 XP

Vs. Increasing AGI (Assume starting AGI 4)
* +1 die to AGI = 1,000XP

So currently, a +1 AGI already costs more than maxing out a specific skill at Tier 4.

This also brings me back to my question about Tradition Grades. For that same 1,000 XP I could instead get Grade I in Burglar and get Stealth, +6 to Attributes (including +2 AGI), and the Grade 1 ability.

The rest of the costs seem exorbitantly high compared to Grades. Unless the point is to push people towards Tradition Grades over smaller improvements.

It's my fault. I totally mis-read it as 200 per advance. Silly.

 

[Morrus]

This also brings me back to my question about Tradition Grades. For that same 1,000 XP I could instead get Grade I in Burglar and get Stealth, +6 to Attributes (including +2 AGI), and the Grade 1 ability.

Although, as a note, starting a new tradition isn't the same as gaining a new grade in one. I haven't priced that yet - it's going to be higher to discourage too much messy chop-changing for single abilities. If it's at the same ratio as a new skill is to increasing a skill, it'd be 2,500XP (flat) for the regular progression. But I haven't actually had anyone start a new tradition yet, so it hasn't had any input at all.

 

[Khaalis]

I might think about making the costs variable. Since traditions are divided into categories, I think it should be cheaper to gain a new tradition in the same category than for one from a different category. For example, it should be cheaper for a burglar to pick up some assassin than to say pick up lore master.
So if it's 1k x new grade to grow in an already known tradition, I might do:
Picking up a new tradition in your category (eg criminal) costs 1,500 xp
Picking up a new tradition from outside your category costs 2,500 xp

It makes sticking to a theme more attractive.

Also, will there be anything like Advanced Traditions (eg Prestige classes) or acquired Traditions to cover things like acquiring lycanthropy, etc.

 

[Sniperfox47]

The way I read it (possibly incorrectly), and played with my group was that traditions/careers could not be taken during play. Taking a new grade of an existing tradition was because you had been using (experience-pointing) the stuff enough that you figure out how to be even better at it, but you could only learn a tradition by expending time from your life to learn it, as opposed to experience points. For example you really want to learn more about herbalism but the BBEG isn't gonna wait for you to go learn it. Instead you defeat him, and in your six years of retirement (between him dying and the apprentice he raised in secret coming to power) you go and learn the herbalist tradition.

I'm not saying don't put in an experience cost or anything, just saying that seems to work really well for my group and I'll probably homerule it for the completed game (although in future playtests we'd play with the playtest rules to provide feedback).

That being said with regards to an xp cost for it 3000 XP would balance the cost. A table with XP costs is below

starting with 4 seperate traditions:
1111    0
2222    8000
4333    24000
4444    36000

Starting with 4 ranks of 1 tradition:
4000        0
4111    ? +     0
4222    ? +  6000
4333    ? + 15000
4444    ? + 27000

36000 - 27000 = 9000
9000 / 3 = 3000

***COMPARISON BELOW***

substitution 9000 for ? (3000 per new tradition):
4000        0
4111     9000
4222    15000
4333    24000
4444    36000

starting with 4 seperate traditions with 1 as 4 (for comparison:
1111        0
4111     9000 (2000+3000+4000)
4222    15000
4333    24000
4444    12000

otherwise you give a distinct long term advantage for either choosing 4 seperate traditions, or 4 ranks of one to start.