prices getting a little nuts?

[spacecrime.com]

I think my whole point is: Do you have 75 $25.00 or less d20 books sitting on your shelf because your customers are buying $40.00-$50.00 books and thus do not have enough extra cash to buy the cheaper books?

Nope. I sell a mix of books at a variety of price levels to a variety of people. The more I broaden those categories without overstretching myself, the happier I'm going to be.

Because that is what I am faced with every month. By the time I buy B5 and some miniatures my $75.00 a month gaming budget is shot. And it doesn't matter how many cool $25.00 books come in after that because I do not have the cash to buy them. And by the time the month comes around and I can spend another $75.00 30 more books have come out, some of which that I want I know will cost $40.00-$50.00. For every $50.00 book I buy there are two $25.00 books I am not buying.

As a gamer, I would much rather purchase a B&W copy of B5 for $10.00-$15.00 less and used the saved cash to buy an additional book then to blow my entire wad on one book and have all the other publishers lose money because I am not buying their products. Because I would probably love to have at least half of those 75 books which are sitting on your shelves getting dusty.

At the risk of offending Eric's grandmother, bull.

You're telling me one thing, but you're doing something else. You say you'd like to buy those books, but you're doing with your dollars. Your dollars say that what you really want is the B5 book and some miniatures. If you really wanted the other items, you would put off the B5 book or the minis or find a way to increase your budget.

You have to remember that all other things being equal, the retailer does not care how you spend your $75 for the month. It's the same 75 dollars whether you spend it on books, minis, or soda. Smart retailers stock what you actually buy, not what you say you want.

Hal's got it right. If you say you want cheap books and buy expensive ones, he's better off making the expensive books. The companies that are going to survive are the ones who look at what people are actually buying and make that, not the ones who listen to what people say they want to buy and don't.

I also think these higher priced books, while you love them because of the greater profit to your store, are going to be the downfall of the FLGS. Because I am to the point where I will buy a $35.00+ book online for a 20-30% discount rather than pay you full price.

Actually, I completely agree with you on that point. I think there's an excellent chance that local game stores will be obsolete within 10 years. If they are to survive, though, it's going to be by devising a strategy to handle high-priced items better than online sources do, not by trying to make high-priced items go away.

cheers,

 

[Desdichado]

I can only speak for myself, but I am very unlikely to buy >$35 dollar books, and quite likely to impulse buy <$20 books. Penumbra Fantasy Bestiary? I'd love it. But I won't pay that much money for it, at least not until I've made damn sure it's exactly what I want. On the other hand, I bought Monsternomicon and Liber Bestarius sight unseen because they were monster books that looked pretty good and were priced at a range that didn't make me hesitate before buying.

In fact, the only >$40 books I have I bought during a going-out-of-business sale for something like 75% off.

Like I said earlier, I'm not exactly a price sensitive gamer, in most respects; I can afford to buy the big, expensive books if I really want to. However, I can't justify it to myself more often than not.

 

[Cergorach]

The weed: $50 books are 2003, the weed would then also be 2003, i haven't a clue what $50 would buy, but i'm guessing it will be a mindblowing big joint. ;-)

I'm not getting these people, they say that they have a $50-$75/month budget for gaming gear. Then they would rather buy two $20 books then one $50 book? You do know that the $50 book is almost 500 pages and in color, and that those two $20 books would barely break 250 pages together and B&W? How fast do you read through those $20 books? right, twice as fast as through the $50 book... The initial point that was made was about impulse buying, not about value. Buying an $20 book if your budget is only $50-$75 is pretty stupid (thats 27%-40% of your budget)!

How you can say that big books do better, check the initial orders of retailers and the reorders/backorders.

IMHO FLGs are inefficient, i have to go to one, have to look for my product, hope it's in, wait in line, speak with actual people (oh the horror in that!), pay full price or close to full price, go back home, etc. It can be usefull when one is located on your route home, but that's often not the case. I for one buy 90% of my stuff online, the other 10% on the way home from work (central station has a freerecordshop that sells cds, dvds, and computer games, also a bookstore). Sometimes i go shopping, you know, one of those days when you actually go out and think to your self, i have this wad of cash burning in my pocket, what for crazy e will i buy this time...

Psion, most publishers do think that they have the best content (although i wonder what kind of weed the guys at moongoose were smoking when they put out some of their books). I do agree that content is very important...

 

[The Sigil]

I think my whole point is: Do you have 75 $25.00 or less d20 books sitting on your shelf because your customers are buying $40.00-$50.00 books and thus do not have enough extra cash to buy the cheaper books? Because that is what I am faced with every month. By the time I buy B5 and some miniatures my $75.00 a month gaming budget is shot. And it doesn't matter how many cool $25.00 books come in after that because I do not have the cash to buy them. And by the time the month comes around and I can spend another $75.00 30 more books have come out, some of which that I want I know will cost $40.00-$50.00. For every $50.00 book I buy there are two $25.00 books I am not buying.

As has already been pointed out, what you really wanted was the B5 book based on the fact that you chose to buy that instead of the $25 books. Your dollars speak louder than words. End of discussion. You say you want cheaper books, yet you buy the more expensive books that you like better. That tells me I should try to create the more expensive books that you like better because you'll buy those - if I create the cheaper books, you won't buy them and I won't see the money anyway.

(Nitpick, but for every $50.00 book you buy, there is ONE $25 book you did not buy - theoretically, if the $50 book was $25, you would have bought it anyway, leaving you $25... enough to buy one other book ).

As a gamer, I would much rather purchase a B&W copy of B5 for $10.00-$15.00 less and used the saved cash to buy an additional book then to blow my entire wad on one book and have all the other publishers lose money because I am not buying their products. Because I would probably love to have at least half of those 75 books which are sitting on your shelves getting dusty.

Here is your real problem with the B5 price. You simply want prices to be lower. This is your biggest motivating factor, not "helping keep more companies afloat." Not that there's anything wrong with that - it's typical consumer behavior - everyone wants things to be cheaper - but if you then betray that desire by paying top dollar anyway, it's a rather weak desire, isn't it? Do you think Company A cares if you spend $25 on their stuff every month (buying two $25 books per month - one book from Company A and one book from Company B each month) or $50 every other month (buying one $50 book per month - one from Company A on odd-numbered months and one from company B on even months)? At the end of the day it all evens out for Companies A & B.

BTW, as a gamer, I'm *all for* cheap stuff with a high contentrice ratio. That's why I'm heavily invested in PDFs.

I also think these higher priced books, while you love them because of the greater profit to your store, are going to be the downfall of the FLGS. Because I am to the point where I will buy a $35.00+ book online for a 20-30% discount rather than pay you full price. And as books keep getting more and more expensive your customers are going to turn away and seek cheaper purchasing alternatives. So while the chicken looks plump for you now, because of the increased profit, a year from now you are going to see that it was mostly just feathers, because you are not going to get the sales.

Now there I can agree with you whole-heartedly.

Basically, I think your argument is (no offense), "I'm a bit of a cheapskate, like every other consumer, and wish prices were lower so I could get more stuff for my money." This is not bad or wrong or immoral. Heck, I wish gas prices were back around 85 cents per gallon like they were when I first started driving. But neither is going to happen, because companies may not be able to stay afloat if they lower prices... and since it may not be possible for prices to be lower, and you've already unconsciously admitted that by paying prevailing prices (just like you do for gasoline), what, really, is the problem here?

Again, as a consumer, I wish the prices of a LOT of things were a LOT lower so I could stretch my dollar farther. But they're not, and my griping isn't going to do anything about it (which is too bad - it would sure be nice if all I had to do was gripe and prices would drop - I could drop everything to free in no time LOL). Your comments don't come across as angry or ignorant, they just come across as someone who doesn't quite want to consciously admit that reality has defeated idealism. None of us ever likes to admit that. Some of us have already surrendered our idealism on this single point to reality, though.

--The Sigil

 

[Cergorach]

I can only speak for myself, but I am very unlikely to buy >$35 dollar books, and quite likely to impulse buy <$20 books. Penumbra Fantasy Bestiary? I'd love it. But I won't pay that much money for it, at least not until I've made damn sure it's exactly what I want. On the other hand, I bought Monsternomicon and Liber Bestarius sight unseen because they were monster books that looked pretty good and were priced at a range that didn't make me hesitate before buying.

In fact, the only >$40 books I have I bought during a going-out-of-business sale for something like 75% off.

Like I said earlier, I'm not exactly a price sensitive gamer, in most respects; I can afford to buy the big, expensive books if I really want to. However, I can't justify it to myself more often than not.

First of, Monsternomicon is $30, B&W, and 240 pages. $30 isn't an impulse buy, atleast according a lot of folks here. When a book is 33% bigger, like 320 pages a fair price would be, $40 (ala BotR).

Buying something for 75% off, good for you, i bought some real gems that way (BladeStorm for example), but these weren't products i really wanted in the first place. I once bought a miniature (Thakasis if you want to know) for $75, the most expensive single miniature i've ever bought to date, at the time i couldn't really afford her, but i wanted her, so i ended up buying her. Why? When you really want something, you'll find a way to make it work, if you don't, well... Then it wasn't worth it in the first place. There's a saying about that somewhere...

 

[Mystic Eye]

Mystic Eye,

Ok, ok, I see what you're saying, but how old are the statistics you're talking about here? Where do they come from? If you are looking at how many books a publisher is selling and those stats are comeing from 6 months ago, we many have a small issue. But if you are finding stats on how many books FLGSs actually sell and those stats are from within the last 3 months, then I'd say you've got me.

Yes, this is looking at what publishers generally sell of a hardback over a softcover, these kind of stats from retail do not exist to my knowledge. However, I still think it is a good "stake in the ground" becuase the "next" harback (Lets say $35-$45) book out by a publisher seems to sell on par with the previous. If it was hurting the retailers to do this you would think they simply would stop. BUT, there are really no stats like this direct from retail that I have seen so that is a good point.

And I may be wrong (and please correct me if I am) but the $50 books have really only started showing up in force for the last 3 months. So sales figures to show that players will buy these high $ books need to be very current before I'll believe they are selling all that well and you need to get them from the game stores themselves.

Well, BoTR from GR is about, I don't recall eight months or more old. It is $40 bucks and well worth it. Children of the Sun (nond20) and Hero 5th edition are $40 bucks. Penumbra Fantasy Beastiary is $45 bucks (this one is newer though). Noblis is $47 and has been out for more than a year. They have been done before.

The other has been in business for about a year and are turning a profit, but they are being forced to switch to a "special order" phiosophy because they've been bitten on too many high $ products (mongoose's harbacks, dragonlance, farscape) In both cases the owners have been told by enough of their customers that the price has influenced them that they are now going to change their buying practices to match the buyer's lack of interest in big items.

Yeah, this seems more about what the customer was specifically interested in but your right, with a higher price tag it is not an impulse buy. I still think if some one was truly interested in the product they would still buy it. I do that myself.

 

[NLP]

You're telling me one thing, but you're doing something else. You say you'd like to buy those books, but you're doing with your dollars. Your dollars say that what you really want is the B5 book and some miniatures. If you really wanted the other items, you would put off the B5 book or the minis or find a way to increase your budget.

Just as a point of reference, I purchased B5 because I am a huge fan of the series. I will probably never run a B5 game, nor ever play in one. B5 is the only book over $35.00 that I have ever bought and, with the possible exception of Conan, will probably be the only book over $35.00 I ever buy. B5 was bought as a fanboy reference, not as a true useful gaming supplement.

But even out of the books I am actually using, I would still say that the flashy production quality is not worth the extra $10.00+. Is Midnight a better book because it has 16 pages of color inserts? Could they have published the book $5.00 cheaper without those 16 pages? Would the fans have not bought the book or spoken so highly of it if it were all B&W?

I have 3 children, and I would not give any of them $35.00-$50.00 to buy a single RPG book if they asked me for it in a FLGS. At those prices publishers are completely wiping out their impulse purchasing market. At $35.00+ per book RPGs cease to be a hobby and become a household expense, just like cable, or water, or the telephone. People should never have to look at a hobby as a household expense.

 

[spacecrime.com]

Just as a point of reference, I purchased B5 because I am a huge fan of the series. I will probably never run a B5 game, nor ever play in one. B5 is the only book over $35.00 that I have ever bought and, with the possible exception of Conan, will probably be the only book over $35.00 I ever buy. .

If that is the case, NLP, then tell me just how it is that books which cost more than $35 are going to prevent you from buying less expensive books?

Because I'm really not seeing what you have to complain about. You've got books available at the price you want. You're allegedly not going to buy any of those expensive books that "prevent" you from buying the books you want.

SO WHAT THE FRICK IS YOUR PROBLEM?????

 

[NLP]

SO WHAT THE FRICK IS YOUR PROBLEM?????

My problem, as I have said 2 or 3 times now, is that as more and more expensive books are published it takes away sales for the cheaper, third-tier companies. And in turn those companies are going to either go out of business or be forced to raise the price of their books in the hope of making a small profit because of their decreased sales. So either way there will be less product available to people who do not want to sell their blood to buy a RPG book.

And thanks for being so nice about it too. I'm sure I will be running right out to buy things from your store now.

 

[gariig]

This all sounds like that supply and demand curve. If consumers are willing to pay more then what you are selling it for then you are undercutting yourself. So, it seems, prices on the low ones are too low and need to be raised. Simple.

Gariig