pricing the prayer beads (including karma)

[alice_of_ebony]

Hiya!

Can someone check my calculations? I somehow stumbled into working out
more reasonable prices for prayer beads (including the infamous prayer bead
of karma). None of the SRD prices make sense to me.

So, there are 6 different kinds of prayer bead: bless, heal, karma, smite,
summons and wind walk. Let's look at them one at a time before we calculate
the cost of a set.

Bless: Wearer can cast bless.
1/day, slotless, use-activated.
CL 1st, cost 1 x 1 x 2000 (use-activated) x 2 (slotless) * 1/5 (1/day)
= 800gp

The SRD says 600gp !?

Heal: This one is a bit tricky. I have to make up a pricing guideline.

Wearer can cast their choice of cure serious wounds (3rd), remove
blindness/deafness (3rd), or remove disease (3rd).
1/day, slotless, use-activated

For each of the three spells
CL 5th, cost 3 x 5 x 2000 x 2 / 5 = 12 000gp

How to price the 'choose one of three' effect?
Obviously, this is less useful than being able to use three spells 1/day.
The multiplier then would be 1 + 0.7 + 0.5 = 2.25.
I think it is less useful than being able to use two spells 1/day each,
but more useful than one spell 1/day.
So the 'usefulness' price multiplier is somewhere between 1 and 2.
If you average 1/3 and 1/2 you get 5/12.
And multiply that by 3, you get 5/4. Just over 1.
Generalise for 'choose 1 of n equal value effects' and I get
n x (1/n + 1/(n-1))/2 ==> 2n-1/2n-2. Which is always just over 1.
Seems reasonable.

So 12 000 x 5/4 = 15 000gp. SRD cost 9 000gp.

Karma: Aaah, the famous caster level +4. 1/day, slotless, use-activated

How to price this?

CL 17th, gate
I took gate from the ankh of ascension (RoF 3.0) requirements.
Righteous might (SRD prayer bead of karma) seems inadequate.

An orange ioun stone is caster level +1, slotless (x2), continuous, worth 30k.
Which means the +1 caster level there is worth about 15k.
Apply the standard 'bonus squared' effect and:

+1 2 x 15k / 5 = 6 000gp (as ioun stone, but 1/day)
+2 2 x 15k x 4 / 5 = 18 000gp
+3 2 x 15k x 9 / 5 = 54 000gp
+4 2 x 15k x 16 / 5 = 96 000gp

This seems a lot better to me than the 20k SRD pricing.

Smite:
Wearer can cast chaos hammer (4th), holy smite (4th), order’s wrath (4th), or
unholy blight (4th) (Will DC 17 partial)

I could use the pricing guideline from the prayer bead of healing, but I want
something different. Not many users will want, or be able, to use all 4 effects.
Why not have different prayer beads of smiting use different effects? There
could be a chaotic prayer bead of smiting (uses chaos hammer), etc.

Much easier to calculate as well

CL 7th. Will DC 17 seems about right for a 4th level spell.
Base stat 15, plus a level increase, and +1 stat boost item.

So 4 x 7 x 2000 x 2 / 5 = 22 400gp

SRD cost 16 800gp.

Summons:
SRD:

Summons a powerful creature of appropriate alignment from the Outer
Planes (an angel, devil, etc.) to aid the wearer for one day. (If the wearer
uses the prayer bead of summons to summon a deity’s emissary frivolously,
the deity takes that character’s items and places a geas upon him as
punishment in the very least.)

First of all having this 1/day is excessive. In 1e, at least, I vaguely recall this
being a one-time only offer. I like that much better. Intent??

SRD requirements: CL 17th, gate.
I prefer: CL 15th, greater planar ally. This seems closer to the desired effect.
I'll price both.

gate (9th) 2 x 9 x 17 x 50 + 5 x 1 000 = 20 300gp
greater planar ally (8th) 2 x 8 x 15 x 50 + 18 x 500 + 5 x 100 = 21 500gp

SRD cost 20 000gp.

Wind Walk: Wearer can cast wind walk (6th). Finally, another simple one.

CL 11th, 6 x 11 x 2000 x 2 / 5 = 52 800gp. SRD price 46.8k

OK, now we can construct the three different strings of prayer beads.

A lesser string of prayer beads has 2 beads: bless and heal.

Lesser: Bless, Heal [16k + .75 * .8k] = 16 600gp SRD price 9 600gp

A standard string of prayer beads has 3 beads: heal; karma and smite.

Standard: Heal, +1 Karma, Smite [22.4k + .75 x 15k + .5 x 6k] = 36 650
Heal, +2 Karma, Smite [22.4k + .75 x 18k + .5 x 15k] = 43 400
Heal, +4 Karma, Smite [96k + .75 x 22.4k + .5 x 15k] = 120 300

I think my standard prayer beads will include a +1 karma bead. For 36 650gp.
SRD price (including +4 caster level) 25 800gp.

A greater string of prayer beads has 4 beads: heal; karma; summons and wind walk.

Greater:
Heal, +1 Karma, Summons, Wind Walk [52.8k + .75 x 21.5k + .5 x 15k .5 x 6k] = 79 425
Heal, +4 Karma, Summons, Wind Walk [96k + .75 x 52.8k + .5 x 21.5k+ .5 x 15k] = 153 850

My greater prayer beads will include a +4 karma bead. For 153 850gp.
SRD price 95 800gp.

So, any thoughts? mistakes, glaring or otherwise?

Later,
Alice

 

[Pyrex]

The 'Karma' bead is not slotless. You have to hold it in your hand to activate it.

Also, the 'Karma' bead only functions for 10min/day. The Ioun stone functions 24hr/day; which should qualify the bead for a pretty huge price reduction.

For the bead of healing, pricing it like a staff (as it's multiple powers drawing from a shared pool of charges):
3x5x1800x1/5x1 (CSW) +
3x5x1800x1/5x0.75 (Remove Blindness/Deafness) +
3x5x1800x1/5x0.5 = 12,150gp
(Bead of Healing is a not-slotless command-word activation item)

 

[alice_of_ebony]

Hiya

Thanks for your comments Pyrex.

The 'Karma' bead is not slotless. You have to hold it in your hand to activate it.

The owner need not hold or wear the strand of prayer beads in any specific location, as long as he carries it somewhere on his person.

I think the above indicates all the beads are slotless. Is there something I missed?

Bead of Healing is a not-slotless command-word activation item

The beads of blessing, smiting, and wind walking function as spell trigger items; the beads of karma and summons can be activated by any character capable of casting divine spells.

Yes, they missed healing out of the list. But it's use is not mentioned anywhere else. So I think that indicates they are all use-activated (since the beads which 'function as spell-trigger items' aren't limited to 50 charges). Although I missed that last phrase about karma/summons, which cuts their price by 30% each.

Also, the 'Karma' bead only functions for 10min/day. The Ioun stone functions 24hr/day; which should qualify the bead for a pretty huge price reduction.

It's not 10 min split up all over the day. It's 1/day, lasting 10min like a spell duration. So the price reduction is for the 1/day charge, dividing the price by 5.

And the 'divine caster' restriction reduces the price even more. 4200gp is cheap!

For the bead of healing, pricing it like a staff (as it's multiple powers drawing from a shared pool of charges):
3x5x1800x1/5x1 (CSW) +
3x5x1800x1/5x0.75 (Remove Blindness/Deafness) +
3x5x1800x1/5x0.5 = 12,150gp

Multiple Similar Abilities: For items with multiple similar abilities that don’t take up space on a character’s body use the following formula: Calculate the price of the single most costly ability, then add 75% of the value of the next most costly ability, plus one-half the value of any other abilities.

Yes, I looked at that (see the 2.25 comment in the original post, which I admit is a bit obscure).

But if you keep the multiplier at 1800 or 2000 it's just like the SRD formula for multiple similar abilities. (And the staff method assumes there are 50 charges).

BTW

Each special bead can be used once per day, except for the bead of summons, which works only once and then becomes nonmagical.

Missed that summons exception before too. Just as well I worked it out

Also, my pricing for the lesser strand was off by 1000gp somehow.

Summary
Karma (divine only)
+1 .7 * 2 x 15k / 5 = 4 200gp (as ioun stone, but 1/day, divine only)
+2 .7 * 2 x 15k x 4 / 5 = 16 800gp
+3 .7 * 2 x 15k x 9 / 5 = 57 800gp
+4 .7 * 2 x 15k x 16 / 5 = 67 200gp

Summons (divine only)
gate (9th) .7 * 2 x 9 x 17 x 50 + 5 x 1 000 = 14 210gp
greater planar ally (8th) .7 * 2 x 8 x 15 x 50 + 18 x 500 + 5 x 100 = 19 710gp

lesser strand: 15 600gp
standard strand (+1 karma): 35 750gp
greater strand (+4 karma): 124 155gp

Later,
Alice

 

[Pyrex]

Items that need to be held in your hand are not slotless, they take up one of your hand slots. The associated cost here is that it takes move actions to shuffle items around during combat. (if you're holding two light hammers you can't use the Prayer Beads because both your "hand" slots are full. You have to drop/put away the hammers, then retrieve the Beads first).

Spell-Trigger is the correct type. That was a goof on my part.

4200gp for one use of 10min +1 caster level is not that cheap.

I was just pointing out that comparing the cost with the Ioun Stone (which in addition to being Continuous is also Slotless) is a bad comparison when the Karma Bead is only used 1/day for 10min.

The template in the SRD for the Staff method is indeed based on 50 charges, but as this is a similar concept it seemed like the best model to use for the Bead of Healing.

If I understand your math correctly you're still off by a factor of 2 on the cost of the Karma bead. You forgot to remove the duration modifier (probably x2, based on a duration for the bead of 1min/lvl) costed into the Ioun Stone.

Where are you getting the .7x modifier you're using

 

[alice_of_ebony]

Yo

Items that need to be held in your hand are not slotless, they take up one of your hand slots.

I don't know where you are getting 'Beads need to be held in your hand'. Can you give me a quote? Because what I'm seeing is

The owner need not hold or wear the strand of prayer beads in any specific location, as long as he carries it somewhere on his person.

The karma bead multipliers I have used are (e.g. for the +3)
.7 (divine casters only)
x 2 (slotless)
x 15k (base price)
x 9 (bonus squared)
x 1 / 5 (1/day)
= 57 800gp

The .7 is the 30% discount for "requiring a specific class or alignment to use".

For the healing bead, if you compare the staff costing method with the general method for costing multiple similar abilities, they are pretty much the same.

The cost for the materials is subsumed in the cost for creating the staff—375 gp x the level of the highest-level spell x the level of the caster, plus 75% of the value of the next most costly ability (281.25 gp x the level of the spell x the level of the caster), plus one-half of the value of any other abilities (187.5 gp x the level of the spell x the level of the caster). Staffs are always fully charged (50 charges) when created.

Multiple Similar Abilities: For items with multiple similar abilities that don’t take up space on a character’s body use the following formula: Calculate the price of the single most costly ability, then add 75% of the value of the next most costly ability, plus one-half the value of any other abilities.

The difference is in the base multiplier, not the formula. i.e. the staff uses 375 as the base multiplier, and a use-activated spell power uses 2000 as the base multiplier.

Later,
Alice

(edited the +3)