D&D 3E/3.5 Primus (Modron) 3.5 conversion & questions

[xidoraven]

On the Creature Catalog conversions page, Primus (Modron, Primus) is listed as being converted to 3.0e on this page, which is nice, but I am wondering where those Hit Dice came from - Outsider Monster HD levels, or some form of character class levels, as most other deities are based from.

I ask this because I myself am writing up a full deity stat block for Primus which would 3.5 compatible, and it might be nice to have it fully updated according to some baseline of stats. My current concept has him as a Fighter 10 / Cleric 20 / Monk 20 Lesser Deity (Divine Rank 7)... I can see that the CC stats have him set at 73 HD, which means that I could easily add 23 Outsider HD levels, or else some Psion class levels, since I see that he has Psionics... Unless that would be considered Psi-Like Abilities as per the 'Expanded Psionics Handbook' rules.

My questions (officially) are: what are the basics of these HD in the 3.xe conversion? and, Can we make a 3.5e conversion using class/monster level progression rules, such as the other deities were given in 'Deities & Demigods'?

My final posting for this version of Primus will be posted on Planewalker.com in their online resources, but this site would be MORE THAN WELCOME to use it for the CC as well if you would like. I will be putting it together over the next little while, and can inform everyone on this thread when it is finished. Any input would be welcome and appreciated, and especially if you have personal knowledge of how the original version was created, and based on what specific precedent. Thanks and best wishes,
-will

 

[freyar]

Well, I wasn't personally involved with Primus there, but I can say this. Any time a monster's HD come from classes, that class is listed in the very first line of the stat block. In other words, Primus's HD are all racial (outsider HD). If they were from classes, that first line would read something like Huge Outsider Fighter 10 / Cleric 20 / Monk 20 to use your example.

 

[xidoraven]

Ok, that's a great start. I appreciate the quick response too. So would it be safe to assume that Primus could have in fact had class levels instead of simply Outsider racial HD, or is there some kind of basis here that I might be overlooking?

I personally find Primus much more endearing as a mortal or semi-mortal who ascended and created the Modron race after his attainment of godhood, but it would be nice to stick with canon as much as possible. So far no one on Planewalker.com has said that my ideas for him are out of line, but I am trying to be as formal as possible when it comes to material that was brought forth when Gary Gygax was still writing the books.

Also, noting the entry for Psionics, would it be safe to say that in this case, those particular abilities might be treated as Psi-like abilities (except that they are obviously spell-like) such as from EPH, where Primus would then be an Outsider with the Psionic subtype? If this is the case or not, would class levels in Psion be helpful or departing from the norm in any way? It would be nice to use the CC version of Primus to compose the revised version, however I am seeing too many discrepancies between the two to really make it work... So I am wondering how far off key I have to go to still make it a viable stat block without being so homebrew that it is no longer canon.

Thanks for the great input.
-will

 

[freyar]

That's right about the Psionics. In 3.X (at least 3.5, I'm not 100% sure about 3.0 like Primus), "core" monsters with psionics just really get extra SLAs called "psionics." If you want, instead you can add abilities based on psionic powers as in the Expanded Psionics Handbook or SRD.

As for canon, though, I sadly can't help. Maybe someone else with knowledge will show up. Or you can try to track down Shemeska on ENWorld. I'd guess he'd know.

 

[xidoraven]

That works for now, even as unsure as it is. I have PMed Shemeska - anyone else that might be able to help on this one? I am not sure of who all is involved in the original CC discussions... I have made sure to let the members on Planewalker.com know that they can join this discussion if they have something to add... I am thinking that they won't, simply because I don't think anyone there is any more sure of it than I am. I think I have pretty much expended the resources available to me there in terms of finding anything more about the Modrons and/or Primus. I think that is a good thing, to be honest. It means I am about as prepared as anyone can be to move forward on his stats and deity description.

I really do appreciate the input, freyar - you rock.
-will

 

[Shade]

I believe Scott Greene did that conversion in the early days of the CC. I haven't seen Scott around these parts in quite some time, but you might try PMing him anyway.

 

[xidoraven]

I have already PMed Shemeska, and I do not know Scott Greene's username on here... Would it technically be a conversion from the first stat block created for Primus (AD&D)? I can't even imagine that being a very good inspiration, but it would be better than nothing, I guess. I love those pictures.... so cheesy. I am so glad that Modrons got developed at least a little bit before D&D decided to let them go from their repertoire...

More to come for Primus and Modrons in 3.5 & Pathfinder...

 

[freyar]

Scott Greene is Grazzt, FYI.

 

[xidoraven]

Aaaawwwwwww, how come he gets to be the sexy demon lord?!?

I just sent a PM his way... We'll see what happens. So far no responses, but I am glad that you both have shared.

 

[xidoraven]

Primus is being converted to 3.5e

The current draft for Primus as a deity (short block) and as his aspects (extended deity information) as well as Inath Variant Rule stats are being compiled and are published to the following drafted point: http://elftown.com/stuff/Primus_deitystats01.pdf

Thought you might enjoy seeing progress. The file has been shown to the Planewalker.com thread for this information on this page: Planes of Technology & Mechanoids | Planewalker

My final choice was Cleric 20 / Fighter 10 / Monk 20 / Psychic Warrior 10 / Titan (Outsider) Racial 20 HD; Divine Rank 7; including Inath Variant Rule stats for ascendant immortal being - unfinished just yet.
-will