Problem Player Woes

[Tewligan]

Since you've already had a discussion with John about his problems with play style and participation, then the choice you face is how you should kick him out.

Maaan, John is SO six months ago. Get with the program, grampa!

 

[kitsune9]

Maaan, John is SO six months ago. Get with the program, grampa!

I will admit that I sometimes show up to the party more than fashionably late.

 

[WizarDru]

Problem is that players want simply to find mistakes or flaws in the adventure. They love any mistake in the game, whether it's relevant to the story or not. Some examples from the session:

Here's where you need to make a decision based on two things: are you having fun and are they having fun? The answer for a game NEEDS to be both. If they had fun and you didn't (or vice-versa), then you need to figure out a compromise.

Here's the thing: Torch Issues. That's what my group calls these things. Torch Issues is the term we use for 'details that aren't relevant, so let's skip it'. This originally came from constant 'who's carrying the torch' discussions. We eventually realized...it didn't matter. We handwaved the issue.

The problem you're seeing now? I've had this problem occasionally, and Supers RPGs make it worse...there's so many powers, technology and variables that some gamers can be paralyzed by it. You have a couple of options. Either Embrace it or Handwave it. For the former, let them argue and discuss (if they enjoy it). In fact, drop plot points that you have no idea about...and USE THEIR SOLUTIONS. Sometimes you have to realize that this like many puzzles in RPGs: they seem obvious to the DM, but the players have no idea. In your example, the answer was right around the corner...but they clearly didn't know that. Either push them TO it or change the answer to something they will walk to. Don't be afraid to change the plot to keep things moving.

Alternately, handwave the details. Pull back the curtain on the Wizard of Oz and say "Listen guys, I don't know anything about phones radio distance and neither do your characters and it's NOT IMPORTANT. Maybe it uses some new technology you don't understand....that's not relevant to the plot. Let's pretend there are extra antennas due to a city-wide initiative and move on." After you do this a few times, the players will start to get a feel for how things work.

 

[Jon_Dahl]

Thank you WizarDru, your post gave me new focus to continue my game. Now I'm going to write some new adventures! But sorry, Enworld won't let me give you more XP.

 

[Wolf1066]

What a nong, I got Jon Dahl's and WizarDru's names confuzzled when giving the XP - put it down to a "Senior Moment". Great suggestions, WizarDru. Will keep those in mind if I have any similar issues in my games.

 

[Sorrowdusk]

I'm a bit at my wits end with my situation. I dug myself into this situation, I know ...

TLDR version: How do you handle a friend who's making the group slowly miserable.

I've always had a pretty small pool of players to draw from for my games. Awhile ago we ended up playing with someone, who I'll call John, who had been a friend of mine. The other players were ok with it, and we got to gaming. Over time we really grew tired of his style of play though.

John is the most cautious player I've ever seen. John is the kind of guy that will hide a hundred feet away and watch a combat to see if he's needed, and runs at the first sign of trouble. When threatened with getting no xp, he figures out the least amount of work he can do to get credit, all while making sure he never draws fire on himself. It's hard to describe, but he's been a master of skirting the edge for awhile now.

Whats his experience? Overly cautious players has come up before, some people get used to playing under killer DMs where basically things like searching every 5ft square for traps is the only way to stay survive the DM wants to kill them at every possible chance.

Eventually our game fell apart, though not because of him. When a few newer friends of mine started talking about wanting to me to start up a game, I was excited. John heard about this, and wanted to jump in. I was cautious, and should have listened to my gut, but why not? "He's a friend, let's do this!" And I finally had a group again.

He's your friend you talk to him.

Ever since then we've had problems with him. I don't know if I can convey it well enough here, but again, he's the master of skirting that edge. Sometimes it's just bad playing, sometimes you can't figure out if he's doing it on purpose, and he's still completely concerned about dying. His most famous moment was when the group brought a Xill down to the brink of death, (one hit point), and rather then punching him in the face, as monks are known for doing I assume, he went total defense. For twenty seven rounds. While the group is down and dying. The group exploded on him, but decided not to kick him out.

27 rounds? DAM. Long combat.

Well, Monks CAN tank. But you have to actually draw aggro or look like a threat. BUT...did you tell him it had 1hp? He wouldnt necessarily know, although depending on what you're up against fighting all out to kill something as fast as possible may be the better "defense".

John still plays overly cautious, even to the point of rolling multiple dice, over and over again in silence, to see which one is going to roll well before he commits to an action.

Many players do this (although best done before game). I dont care what staticians tell you, if a die is only rolling average results its depleted.

He seemingly waits to make "the big play" instead of participating in every round of combat, like spending 5 rounds hiding, going invisible, casting fly, slowly going up the cliff, then, rounds later, casting Mage Armor and lying in wait, all so that he could grab a player out of a grapple and Dimension Door him to safety.

BUT HE DID get the player to safety right? How did he/the others feel about it afterward?

He continues to drive the group mad with wonky characters, like making a sorcerer that rolls percentage to see if he's going to cast spells or fire his crossbow.

I have seen some similar people, some people will even roll to determine how their character feels about something. In any case-isnt he free to cast spells or use weapons as he wants to? Even...randomly?


[qoute[He makes comments like his character has plans to wipe the entire group and "jokes" about how he's going to kill each one.[/quote]

Be real. You KNOW him. Do you really think he can kill the entire party given how cautious he is even when he's not in danger, let alone outnumbered?



[qupte]Last week, when his character died, he calmly suggested we scrap the entire campaign story, and possibly scrap my world I've had going for 15 years, because he didn't care for the story or any of the other players' characters.

Well it was calm-so (seemingly) he wasnt angry. But he may be expressing that that he wants to play a different sort of campaign.

We've talked to him before, but he doesn't take any of the new players seriously, since he's been in the group longer. He laughs at concerns and thinks everyone ELSE is playing bad and not keeping up to his level.

Aaaaaaaah. SO, what does he think others should do? I would tell him though that there is way to be "good" at a TTRPG its not a game you can win, nor is it something you can exactly get "good at" like other games (at least IMO). I would call him out on that much.

The worst is that he's not always this bad. Like I said earlier, he's the master of balancing on that edge and when he starts to push his luck, he backs off just enough.

Not always? Why does he sometimes act the way he does, what does he say? Perhaps he should play in a Call of Cthulhu session and see how he likes it.

So what should I do? What's the best way to go about solving this problem? Straight kick, no chaser? Group pow-wow? Start a three strike process? I've never had to kick a player before, ever, so I don't know how to go about it.

POW-WOW all the way. I know he's your friend, but I dont know you should just boot him just like that. I dont know how insidious you are, but I have seen groups meet and "pretend" to finish the campaign or simply quite...and then ever-after that meet in some private place for the game but not tell the player-in-question about it as if there is NO game at all.

 

[shadzar]

He makes comments like his character has plans to wipe the entire group and "jokes" about how he's going to kill each one. Last week, when his character died, he calmly suggested we scrap the entire campaign story, and possibly scrap my world I've had going for 15 years, because he didn't care for the story or any of the other players' characters.

"Well John, since you don't care about it, we won't bother to have a new character for you, and you are welcome to not return to our games. Sorry you don't enjoy D&D, hope you find a hobby more that suits your needs. IF at any point and time you want to play a co-op game and work with the other players, then you are welcome to come back on a trial basis."