Professional GM: Possible Return

[crazy_cat]

Why hasn't this thread been allowed to die the death it so very much deserved?

Err - because comments like this bump it? It doesn't look like he's currently active on the site, so the thread will sink soon enough. Bumping it to criticize really doesn't accomplish much. ~ Piratecat

 

[Bullgrit]

The problem with this is that there are hundreds of DM's (with greater, equal or lesser skill) that will do it for free and people will always take a freebie over a charged service (even if the game is slightly less fun than yours). There are too many free DM's to make money doing it because the work is fun for alot of people.

I make my own adventures and campaign materials. Yet there are lots of people who make a living at creating adventures and campaign materials.

People can mow their own lawns, (and some like doing it). Yet there are lots of people who make a living at mowing lawns.

People can wash their own cars, (and some like doing it). Yet there are lots of people who make a living at washing cars.

People can cook their own food, (and some like doing it). Yet there are lots of people who make a living at cooking food.

Libraries loan out books for free. Yet there are lots of people who make a living selling books.

There are lots of people who will have sex for free. Yet there are lots of people who make a living at sex.

If people didn't bother trying to find a way to get paid for something that they have done for free, and that others do for free, we'd have a lot less industries than we have now.

Sports. Acting. Singing. Some people get paid a LOT of money to do something that other people will do for free, for fun, and maybe even better.

Bullgrit

 

[Janx]

I make my own adventures and campaign materials. Yet there are lots of people who make a living at creating adventures and campaign materials.

People can mow their own lawns, (and some like doing it). Yet there are lots of people who make a living at mowing lawns.

People can wash their own cars, (and some like doing it). Yet there are lots of people who make a living at washing cars.

People can cook their own food, (and some like doing it). Yet there are lots of people who make a living at cooking food.

Libraries loan out books for free. Yet there are lots of people who make a living selling books.

There are lots of people who will have sex for free. Yet there are lots of people who make a living at sex.

If people didn't bother trying to find a way to get paid for something that they have done for free, and that others do for free, we'd have a lot less industries than we have now.

Sports. Acting. Singing. Some people get paid a LOT of money to do something that other people will do for free, for fun, and maybe even better.

Bullgrit

Good points.

I think one reason folks have beeen down on this "GMing for money" is demand and competition (free is competition)

if I were starting a business, I would try to do one in an area that has demand and doesn't have any obvious competition.

If people were telling me "I wish there were a service for this", or "you should start charging for that, I'd pay for it", that's a signal to investigate for opportunities.

We don't see a lot of ads for "GM wanted, will pay $100 per session". None of my players suggested, "you should charge for this campaign"

It doesn't mean it can't work, but as far as research to see if the industry can support it, it fails miserably as an idea.

Additionally, not to speak ill of the OP, but he sounded like a desperate person trying to slap together a get-rich-quick scheme. It didn't sound organized, and I wasn't interested in buying any of it. That sniff test probably came in the same way for most people who read this thread.

There's tons of young people with crazy ideas that make a go of it and do well (the Facebook guy). That guy was in the right place at the right time, and slapped together the right product to prove the concept, and knew the right people to get it rolling.

But there's plenty more people who are NOT positioned to do that. That's a darn shame. Plenty of folks on this thread did post useful suggestions to help this kid, even amidst doubting the viability.

On one hand, an argument could be made that we all should have kept our negative comments to ourselves (if you ain't got nothin nice to say...). But on the other hand, those comments are also a form of market research. if all he got was bubbly enthusiasm, he'd being going in without seeing what forces oppose his idea.

 

[Tav_Behemoth]

I donated a D&D party for kids or adults to my son's school's auction. It's on Friday, but there's already a $215 pre-bid from a parent of a fifth grader who wants it for his 12th birthday. Tony Dowler (microdungeons.net, How to Host a Dungeon) also successfully auctioned off a D&D party at a school auction. The appeal here is that it fits into an existing category of something parents are accustomed to doing for kids. Dave Arneson donated 4 hour convention games to con charity auctions and brought in bids of $400 - $600, the appeal there being !!!DAVE ARNESON!!!

All these are charities, but I've posted about commercial examples upthread.

 

[Janx]

Tav certainly demonstrates that somebody can pull it off.

But then, when Tav describes what he was doing, I have a sense of confidence in his product. I didn't get that from the OP.

The guys who do TrueDungeon have also got a winning product idea.

Build a real dungeon set, load it on a trailer and run games across the country at conventions. How can that not make money?

Well, actually there are ways it can fail to make money, but it does pass the initial sniff test of "I'd pay for that."

 

[Tav_Behemoth]

Here's the item description I put into the auction catalog:

Item Name: Dungeons and Dragons Party

Estimated Value $: 200

Item Description: Enjoy an afternoon or evening of Dungeons and Dragons with experienced Dungeon Master, published D&D writer, and Hunter dad Tavis Allison! Play the modern version of this popular role playing game, or take a nostalgia trip and experience how it was in the days when Hunter fielded its own competitive D&D tournament team. This event will be fun for up to eight adults, kids (generally age 10+), or a mix of both. Tavis will contribute the essentials (dice, pencils, graph paper, and snacks), you’ll provide the time and place, and fun will be had by all.

I encourage others to do something similar if you've got a school / work / organizational auction. I'd been thinking about it for a long time, but it was seeing that Tony had actually done it that gave me the confidence; I hope to pass it on!

We talk sometimes about ways to reach new gamers and do outreach and I think this is a good one because:
- it establishes that a good D&D game is something that people value
- you get to meet and play with the winning bidders, who are likely inexperienced and/or lapsed and thus present a good opportunity to show them how to progress further into RPGing
- you and D&D get exposure from everyone who reads the catalog and might say "gee, I remember that" or "huh, that sounds interesting"

 

[Kingreaper]

published D&D writer,

To me, this is a major point of confidence with that ad. One of the things that make me go "you know what, I'm NOT getting that experience for free already"

It seems like the sort of thing that's really necessary to have as part of this sort of pitch, some measure of "I really know what I'm doing; look at what I've done already"

 

[Piratecat]

Enjoy an afternoon or evening of Dungeons and Dragons with experienced Dungeon Master, published D&D writer, and Hunter dad Tavis Allison!

Dude, I got to game with you for free. I WIN!

If you need a reference to tell them you're worth it, let me know.

 

[darjr]

Ya know, I've got an RPGA event this Sunday, I would pay a GM to show up and run a couple of events. Not much, granted, but I think would. I don't, however, think anyone could make a living off of it.

Then again, a FLGS really should have paid game organizers/GM's so that they could dictate things they otherwise couldn't. A hybrid general store employee that does some DM/Game organizer duties may be a living.

Now that I think about it, I might know a couple people who do exactly that. Though they are really counter people and your standard kind of store employee I think they get a little something for running events. Though I don't think they GM, they run big events like 40k and magic tournaments.

 

[Wik]

There are relatively few people I would pay to GM for me. Mostly because, in the end, I prefer being the GM in the long term. But I can think of a few people I'd toss a few bucks towards:

Piratecat (Because every time I read one of his story hours, my jaw drops)
Rel (even more so, and I love the way he house rules)
Stalker0 (I have no idea how he actually runs a game, but his treatment of the game rules mesh perfectly with my own views, which is usually a good sign)
Lost Soul (his sandbox 4e threads are super useful... plus he likes Mission Hill).

To any of those guys, if you're ever in Victoria and you want to make, say, twenty bucks... LEMME KNOW!