Proposal: Allow Weapons used as implements to use Magic Powers.

[EvolutionKB]

I will read no more into this subject until somebody emails WoTC asking. I don't care how many times it's been asked. I just want an answer here. If they come up with the "it's up to the dm" answer, I say we go with the more conservative way.

 

[Velmont]

I have tried to do it, but the problem is when I click on e-mail us, the website throw me an error. It seems they really don't want me to find out.

 

[renau1g]

They're having some issues with their CS system IIRC

 

[elecgraystone]

I will read no more into this subject until somebody emails WoTC asking.

To be 100% truthful, WOTC CS is completely worthless even if you COULD get through to them. I've seen countless times where the answer all depends on who you get. Ask the same question another day and you get the exact opposite answer. Until it's in the official FAQ/errata it's not a real answer since you can keep asking CS until they give you the answer you want.

 

[stonegod]

To follow up on this: I did some digging on the WotC boards, especially in the Sorcerer threads. Apparently, there is someone that digged at CS enough times to get to the DevTeam, and the word of god seems to favor my position (weapon powers not applicable to implements) consistently. This is from someone who pestered the DevTeam directly until Weapon Focus worked for Staffs.

You can find the link here: Whoops! Browser Settings Incompatible

Its not directly from CS or the DevTeam, but we can at least contact Crimson_Lancer over there if you want some more direct evidence.

Interesting wrinkle in this, though: From their ruling, it seems that it is clear that the reading should be "You cannot use weapon powers when using the weapon as an implement." But, as noted by others, Flaming Weapons are not used during the attack, but before. So, in theory, the power could be converted to fire/whatever... but, here's the kicker: It wouldn't gain the Fire keyword (so feats/powers/etc. that require the keyword wouldn't work. So, using a frost dagger and the wintertouched combos would not work; see question 15 of the FAQ for this one.

So, the summary:
- You can't use weapon powers when using the item as an implement (baring, of course, exceptions in the power themselves)
- Powers of a weapon can be used when not being used as an implement
- ... but, any keywords those powers grant do not apply (you only gain keywords when using the weapon power with the power it augments... which you can't do for weapon powers with implements).

 

[renau1g]

But Frost dagger /wintertouched still works for melee? I hope they change this.

 

[stonegod]

But Frost dagger /wintertouched still works for melee? I hope they change this.

Yes, since you can use the dagger's at-will (a free action) with the melee attack you wish to trigger wintertouched and kin on.

 

[hornedturtle]

So the argument has benn well made that WotC probably would officially rule against allowing it. What about the proposal to allow it anyway? Would it be game breaking to allow it? What about at some cost? Say a feat or perhaps a more expensive verision of the weapon implement in question? Like a Frost dagger implement at a level higher than the standard Frost dagger that allows someone with the weapon implement feat to applies the bonuses to Magic powers? Of course the exact amount of these adjustments could be debated.

 

[elecgraystone]

LOL From the thread link the debate hasn't been resolved. I have 0% trust in CS and even LESS on third hand information about what the Dev Team is thinking. If it's gotten to the DEV Team, how hard is it for them to put out some errata or post on one of the threads on it? Not very. Sorry but I can't conclude a future ruling from hearsay.

Now if there is something from one of the Dev Team, that would be something. Until then posts from others, even the CS, aren't proof of a future ruling.

To reply to hornedturtle, I don't see the need for any extra cost. It gives more options and I don't see it as unbalanced.

EDIT: DO you mean FAQ 14 stonegod? 15 is 'What are the benefits of being hidden?'. If it's 14, I disagree with your reading. It says 'You have to be using the powers of the weapon' NOT you have to be using a weapon attack. It's say, for example, that is my sword has a daily fire attack, it only has the fire keyword for that attack and not all attacks. A flaming sword turns all damage into fire so you are indeed using the power of the weapon and get the keyword.

 

[TwoHeadsBarking]

You know what? No. Frankly, I don't think melee attacks should gain additional keywords from the weapon power either.