Protecting Troops from Fireball

[nittanytbone]

Unless you rule that you can do a perfect testudo, which hermetically seals the troops, any gaps will allow the spread to wrap around.

Andargor

What about moveable siege walls or the like then? Basically a shield with enough frontage to spread out the entire burst, perhaps with a roof covered in wet branches, which is pushed by many men?

It wouldn't be practical in many tactical situations but in a siege type assault it could provide cover.

 

[Tonguez]

I'd go and design standards which have a permanent mass resist and/or counterspell and/or Sheild effect in place and then get standard bearers in every platoon.

DnD doesn't have good core mass combat rules (with stuff like sheild formations, morale checks and mass magic items)

 

[Halma]

Formation Idea to counter Fireball effects

___________________________________265’ Front 30’ Depth

__55’ Formation front___15’ between formations
X X X X X X X X X X___X X X X X X X X X X___X X X X X X X X X X ___X X X X X X X X X X
O O O O O O O O O O__O O O O O O O O O O__O O O O O O O O O O__O O O O O O O O O O
20’ in front of main formation and 15’ between skirmishers
______Q_____________________Q__________________Q___________________Q
__X___X___X___X_______X___X___X___X_____ X___X___X___X______X____X___X___X


O = heavily armored soldier breast plate to full plate with shield and sword or axe
- These would move at ¾ speed (Move / 1/2 move Or 30’ per round) to not completely out distance their Archers
- Once within battle they would try to target the Spell caster if not already dead
X = medium armored soldier chain shirt to breast plate with long Bow and sword or axe with no shield
- These would have Alertness as a feat and Point blank shot and if possible Precise shot
- These would move at half speed (30’) and ready bow shots when they see spell casters start to cast
- When in contact with the enemy (10’ – 15’) they would drop bows and draw swords
Q = Bard or mage that can move fast, ready spells like Magic missle to disrupt spells
- These would move with the formation and target spell casters as quickly as possible.
- If possible these would have invisibility, or improved invisibility, and possible Energy protection
- They would have a wand of either Glitterdust (a blinded mage is useless) and/or a wand of see invisible/remove invis…

Now this is assuming that the Enemy has only a small amount of arcane power, 1-4 spell casters where 1 of which can cast 1-2 fireballs and other mass damage or effect spells. if this army is going up agains 10 10th lvl mages they are in deep doo doo anyway, and should have brought some of thier 10th lvl spell casters as well.

Let me know what you guys think of this ...

 

[lukelightning]

Remember that tower shields are a terrible protection from spells, and I'm not sure they can protect you at all from a fireball or other burst effect. Remember that any held item including a shield is effectively "you" for purposes of magic effects.

Shield, Tower: This massive wooden shield is nearly as tall as you are. In most situations, it provides the indicated shield bonus to your AC. However, you can instead use it as total cover, though you must give up your attacks to do so. The shield does not, however, provide cover against targeted spells; a spellcaster can cast a spell on you by targeting the shield you are holding. You cannot bash with a tower shield, nor can you use your shield hand for anything else.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Remember that tower shields are a terrible protection from spells, and I'm not sure they can protect you at all from a fireball or other burst effect. Remember that any held item including a shield is effectively "you" for purposes of magic effects.

They protect very well against burst effects. They protect very badly against spread effects and against targeted spells.

A tower shield could provide immunity to Scorching Ray, for example; it is not a targeted spell, and it cannot strike an opponent with total cover.

It could provide immunity to Lightning Bolt, since total cover blocks line of effect.

It could not provide immunity to Charm Person, since, as a targeted spell, it can be cast on you by targeting the shield.

-Hyp.

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

From the SRD:
"You point your finger and determine the range (distance and height) at which the fireball is to burst. A glowing, pea-sized bead streaks from the pointing digit and, unless it impacts upon a material body or solid barrier prior to attaining the prescribed range, blossoms into the fireball at that point. (An early impact results in an early detonation.) If you attempt to send the bead through a narrow passage, such as through an arrow slit, you must “hit” the opening with a ranged touch attack, or else the bead strikes the barrier and detonates prematurely."

How about tactics to erect a barrier for the pre-mature detonation effect? It seems, from the language, that the bead travels in a straight line path to the target, as this is the shortest and fastest route. Could ready an action to cast a wall spell 5 feet in front of the caster. ^_^

I always wondered about the premature detonation rule, because no DM I've played with seems to enforce it, and it the safety of casting such a spell with big, space-hogging meatshields in between you and the target point is questionable to me.

As another possibility using this rule, because I like archers: How about the army's master archer readies an action to shoot the bead as it appears? CW has ACs for fine targets (the bull's eye of a target circle) and I forget if they include a defined bonus for a moving target. Having the bead streak out, only to strike the arrow half a second later and blow up in the wizard's face would be hilarious. the only limiting facter there is if the bead is visible or not, and what the spot check dc would be.

 

[solates]

Shrug.

Enemy has a 11 wizard.
Get a deepwood sniper.

Problem solved.

OR

Get a mid-level rogue(5-9) and give him a wand of blindness. wizard cant see, wizard cant target, wizard just became a pin-cushion.

Against flying wizards a wand of dispel magic(Area effect) works wonders. In a higher level campaign the rogue equiped with a mordenkainens disjunction works even better.

Also why not just give the bard or rogue a wand of fireball or magic missile as well? Heck even a wand of spiritual weapon.

Defense wise-bless, prayer, recitation all help and cover a pretty decent area. Extra heavy crossbows(From the fist and steel book) also do 1d12 base damage, thats potentially enough to disrupt a lower level caster and for sure on a crit.

Use a transmute boulder to pebble and use a sling. Have the caster dispel it as soon as it hits.

Siege weapons-catapults, trebuchets, ballistas all come to mind for taking out an opponent at range. Im thinking ballista bolts are a real good reason for an enemy wizard to stay silent.

Solates

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

So far the useful suggestions look like in no particular order:

(1) Spread out as best you can. Obvious.

(2) Prepare to bandage and heal wounded men. The lucky will survive, even if unconscious and in need of stabilization.

(3) Some of the men should Ready arrows. Certainly worth trying but likely to fail against a prepared wizard -- low level warriors are going to have trouble against Protection from Arrows but Magic Weapon is worth an attempt.

(4) Fight in darkness, such as a moonlit night, to nullify the long range of the Fireball. Or any of means of limiting visibility. I like this one, but it is tough to emply against someone who could cast Light. On the plus side there are ways of doing this with low level magic, such as Obscuring Mist or Fog Cloud.

(5) Some of the troops Ready actions to scatter. This could help if you have the luxury of moving your mass of men very slowly. I like this but the downside is you are commiting to riding out the storm.

(6) Use illusions. A perfect use of low level magic spells in my book. Similar conceptually to #4.

(7) Use heap powerful magic. Not really an answer in my book. The challenge is how to counter the Fireballs on a tight budget or I would just Fireball the wizard casting Fireballs in the first place.

 

[Thanee]

'm assuming there should be some reasonable way to replicate these fantasy swords & sorcery battles in D&D, with wizard magic flying overhead while armies in formation battle it out.

You just need more troops than the wizard has fireballs.

Or one cleric for every ten warriors to cast protective spells.

The problem with these battles is, they just follow a certain storytelling flow, but do not take the actual game rules into consideration. If you play out a battle single wizard vs army of warriors, the wizard will win eventually. In the story, however, the wizard will do some damage, but will be unable to stop a whole army, of course. It's an army, and the wizard is just one, after all.

Of course, you could also use intelligence (divinations) and send in a rogue or assassin to steal the spellbook or kill the wizard first.

Bye
Thanee

 

[nittanytbone]

The problem with these battles is, they just follow a certain storytelling flow, but do not take the actual game rules into consideration. If you play out a battle single wizard vs army of warriors, the wizard will win eventually. In the story, however, the wizard will do some damage, but will be unable to stop a whole army, of course. It's an army, and the wizard is just one, after all.

Actually, I think most wizards would be able to hold off an army pretty effectively. Most combat units become ineffective once they've taken 50% casualties; morale and cohesion start slipping much earlier than that. For example, the US marines taking Peliliu in the Pacific theatre of WW2 were hardened veterans and one of the most elite infantry units ever fielded, and even they lost combat effectiveness after facing (invisible) artillery and mortars which inflicted 50% casualties -- and they had the benefit of their own fire support and knowledge of modern weapons.

I would think that medieval foot troops, unfamiliar with magic and merely knowing that they're taking huge casualties with no chance of returning fire, would have huge morale problems if they didn't all get butchered on the field if the wizard played his cards right. THEY don't know he only gets two fireballs a day!

Then again, if effectively led and able to prevent the wizard from getting 9 hours of restful time to sleep and prepare spells, I suppose the wizard might eventually run out of charges in his wand of fireballs...