PS3 600 dollars? Sony is on crack

[Grog]

Many feel the same way, but plenty still feel they must play FF because part VI was good.

Oh, come on. That's ridiculous. No game is going to sell on the strength of an entry 4-6 games ago in the series. The idea that there are people out there saying, "Well, even though every FF game after VI has sucked, I have to keep buying every new game in the series because VI was good" is completely ludicrous. Yes, the FF name carries weight, in part because of its history from the NES-SNES days, but the games still sell because they are damn good console RPGs, at least in the opinions of a lot of console gamers.

Myself, I thought that FF7, 8, and 9 were all very good games, although I felt that some other games that Square released during the PSX era were much better (Chrono Cross, Vagrant Story, and Final Fantasy Tactics, to name three). And I also thought FFX was excellent, far and away the best PS2 RPG. I didn't bother picking up FFX-2 since it didn't interest me much, and I know almost nothing about FFXII since I don't have a PS2 anymore (I do most of my gaming on the PC these days). So that's a pretty damn good track record after FFVI, in my opinion.

 

[Arnwyn]

But see, here's the problem. I've been a hardcore gamer for as long as I can remember. Out of the games you mentioned, Xenogears, Chronotrigger, and Dragon Quest are the only ones I've even heard of. They may be popular among some folks, but they aren't system sellers.

Mario
Zelda
Metroid
Halo
Metal Gear
Final Fantasy

These are the exclusive system sellers. And yes, the 360 currently only has one. But, you can see how imortant they are by the fact that Nintendo has three, and suffered terribly compared to Sony and Microsoft last gen.

Looks the the PS2 franchises I listed are system sellers. People didn't buy the PS2 "just because". They bought it because it played the games/franchises people like... and a lot of them. (I agree with your single-game system seller list - less so for Metroid, though, which hasn't done very well recently - but what I listed where system-seller franchises. People will buy the system that wil have the games/game-types that they want to play - like the Suikoden series, DQ series, AC series, etc.)

I thought we were debating with the info we have now. Saying "we'll see when it comes out" isn't doing much to convince me Sony will hold their own in the US this generation.

Based on your posts, I suspect very little will convince you re: Sony. In any case, I'm not actually trying to convince you of anything.

I'm just pointing out (poorly I admit, in the above instance) that there are a lot of debatable/refutable statements being made in this thread. For example, contrary to what reanjr and yourself have posted, I have seen reported (on IGN, among other places) that the emulation for the PS3 will be very robust. *shrug* When we get conflicting reports (sometimes saying the exact opposite, all we can do is wait.

Clearly, I was being sarcastic. But then why did you bring it up if your point wasn't that 360 BC had messed up priorities?

Not clearly. But I mentioned it for a dash of humor, only (simply because IGN makes fun of it all the time when discussing 360 compatibility).

Not quite sure of what failed in these ports. I know people who own both of them. GameSpot rates MGS1 for GCN an 8.2, MGS2 for XB and 8.7. In both cases, their only complaint is it's only slightly better than the PSx versions and that Konami is not too experienced developing for XBox. I have not heard Konami indicate that it WILL NOT come out on XBox. MGS3: Subsistance just came out in March, so I wouldn't discount an XBox version out of hand. If you have a link indicating that it is NOT coming, I'd like to read it.

They didn't sell a lick, is what failed. IGN was filled with tales of woe a little while after those games came out. With the 360 dead in Japan (and the 180 dead everywhere) and the Wii going in a different direction for games in general, MGS won't be multiplatform.

As for MGS on other systems - IGN's your place.

Just as an FYI - Xenosaga III is supposed to be the end of the series, and it's a PS2 game (the last days of PS2 being pretty good to RPG fans, with FF XII as the biggest name). And if Tales in the next-gen is like the current-gen, you'll see a game or two on Wii.

Oh, I know. But I'm sure you're quite aware how franchises tend to 'live on' (direct sequels or otherwise - though I hate hate hate when there are direct sequels on different generation systems. That sucks hard). And a Tales game for Wii would be great.

 

[Ashrem Bayle]

http://www.engadget.com/2006/07/06/sony-under-fire-for-racist-advertising/

BWAHAHAHA!!! Gotta love the brains behind their marketing department.

 

[trancejeremy]

Yeah, I mentioned that on the first page. (Though IMHO, only by ignoring half the images, where the black woman was "winning" could you see racism in those ads. Still weird, but IMHO, more kinky than anything else)

And in other news, the PS2 continues to outsell the 360 in June

http://www.videogamecharts.com/page3.html

312,000 units to 277,000

Though the 360 has gone from having a worse launch than the Gamecube (in 6 months) to a somewhat better one (in 8 months, by about 100,000 units)

Also interesting, the PSP and the DS were pretty much neck & neck in the US (with the PSP having a slight lead), but the launch of the DS Lite has changed that. Perhaps MS needs to try launching a 360 Lite?

 

[reanjr]

Oh, come on. That's ridiculous. No game is going to sell on the strength of an entry 4-6 games ago in the series.

I didn't mean to imply that people only like FF because of VI, just that a great number of those who don't like FF still play because of IV and VI.

I'm a huge fan of Tactics and X and I really liked that battle system in VIII (I know I'm in the minority there).

 

[drothgery]

Oh, I know. But I'm sure you're quite aware how franchises tend to 'live on' (direct sequels or otherwise - though I hate hate hate when there are direct sequels on different generation systems. That sucks hard).

Apparently the Xenosaga series hasn't sold all that well, which was why they're wrapping in up in three games (instead of five); it'll be a while before we see anything there again (if ever).

 

[Ashrem Bayle]

Apparently the Xenosaga series hasn't sold all that well, which was why they're wrapping in up in three games (instead of five); it'll be a while before we see anything there again (if ever).

That's an example of what I was talking about. Just because a game is good, doesn't mean it is a system selling franchise. However, Nintendo has the largest number of "system selling franchises", and it was still creamed last gen.

I think it will kick butt this gen though, but it really kinda has it's own market. I'm glad they decided not to compete with Sony and Microsoft. They, and we, will be better off for it.

 

[Grog]

I didn't mean to imply that people only like FF because of VI, just that a great number of those who don't like FF still play because of IV and VI.

I still think that notion is ridiculous. Why would people play through three or four games they don't like just because 10+ years ago there was a game in the series they did like?

 

[Ranger REG]

Perhaps MS needs to try launching a 360 Lite?

Perhaps, it depends on the success of the Origami.

But you would think that MS Game Studio be rolling out game software titles for WinCE.

 

[John Crichton]

Conjecture on the part of Sony itself, as well as multiple developers working on both systems. I think it's safe to assume they know what they are talking about...

I don’t assume anything except taking history and logic into account. The public has no clue when it comes to real news in unreleased gaming consoles. Myself included.

November 2005 326,000
December 2005 281,441
January 2006 249,000
February 2006 161,000
March 2006 192,000
April 2006 295,381
May 2006 220,877

That’s an impressive set of numbers. Link me, is what I said. A source and MS projections is what I should have said.

They are still suffering shortages in some areas, but the 360 is on track for Microsoft's projected sales...

Where are the numbers and links to support this. Considering the lack of games, I highly doubt they are hitting the projections they want. But, I could be wrong.

Non-FPS games that got great reviews: (Non necessarily exclusive, but you can buy them today)
PGR
Dead or Alive
Oblivion (It has a optional 1st person perspective, but it is hardly an FPS)
Kameo
Burnout
Fight Night
Tony Hawk
LotR: Battle For Middle Earth
Tomb Raider

As ‘Beyond Good & Evil” proved, good reviews mean nothing. And that game wasn’t a system seller. I can see why it didn’t do well. That tangent aside, the titles you mentioned are not system sellers. Why? Because they are not exclusive. Exclusives sell systems. And the ones that are exclusives aren’t good enough to make every game run out and buy the system. The only game on that list with any real buzz and influence is Oblivion. Tomb Raider is nice, but most folks with a PS2, PC or Xbox will pick it up for that system rather than drop $300-400 on a new console that will make the game look better. That’s what makes exclusives so powerful. They give us no choice but to plunk down the big dollars to play a must-have game.

Right now, these non-exclusive games are still moving 360 systems because A: The PS3 doesn't exist, and B: A lot of people don't want to buy a $1000+ PC to play these games. Games always sell better on consoles than on PCs.

Personally, I play a lot of non-FPS games on my 360, and the fact that you can buy them on PC doesn't mean jack to me because I'm not going to upgrade my PC to be able to run them. You can get a 360 for the price of a good video card...

I move that this point be stricken from the record as it assumes these games are making people buy consoles without any proof at all. If they were all exclusives, then there would be an argument.

People with a high-end gaming machine, and a 360, are the extreme minority. And the PS3 hasn't been released. Therefore, these games being non-exclusive really doesn't seem as critical as you guys are making it out to be.

I don’t agree at all. Only the people with money to burn or early adopters will buy a new system just to play a game they already can on a system they already own. I’m talking about the PS2 here and the PC next. The PS2 is the system to beat right now and that is what the 360 is competing again, and losing. It annoys me because I want more 360 games and can’t friggin wait for next year when the good stuff gets here!

After the PS3 comes out, it will be a much bigger deal. But if the 360 has already dominated the market, it'll be a up hill battle for the PS3 all the way. Exclusives or not.

It’s a big deal right now. See above post.

Also, I keep hearing that Sony has all these great exclusive franchises that will bury the 360, but oddly enough, I can't think of many.

FF & Metal Gear? Sure. They've also got God of War and Devil May Cry.... but then what?

Then what? Okay, you’ve thrown down the gauntlet, Arwyn has given a few titles that have a hardcore following, which is basically the fanatical RPG market (a huge market!) but I shall toss out a few more (some may be cross-platform but people tend to remember a game’s roots): Gran Turismo, SOCOM, Guitar Hero, Jak & Daxter, Sly Cooper, Katamari Damacy & Onimusha. Huge sellers and lots of ‘em is what Sony has, as well as a reputation for getting the boss games. MS is going to have to produce more quality titles and a variety that matches the PS2 to be the top dog this generation. I think they are going the right direction, myself. It’s great that there are choices and awesome exclusives on 3 consoles.

Great time to be a gamer, to me.