Psion class (Mearls, Happy Fun Hour)

[Charlaquin]

Not having a telepathic subclass within psion doesn’t work. A telepathic wizard still starts off as just an arcane spellcaster—identical to every other 1st level wizard. I don’t really care one way or the other if they make a telepathic wizard subclass, but they absolutely have to have a psion subclass for it.

I think Mearls will come around to that eventually, if for no other reason than because there’s demand for it.

Having watched the stream and seen his process, I think I have a good sense of his train of thought:
There needs to be a Psionic/Arcane hybrid option > wizard is the best core class to handle that > a telepath is a strong flavor match for a Psionic wizard > if the Psionic wizard is a telepath, we don’t need the Psion core class to cover the same ground.

But the telepath is right up there with the telekinetic in the list of most iconic expressions of the Psion. It’s one of the Psionic archetypes that people who want to play a Psion think of, so that should be doable without having to also be a wizard. And I think as Mearls continues to iterate on this design, that’s going to become clearer. The Psion is going to end up feeling like it’s missing a core part of its identity as a class, and that’s going to lead towards a push either for a telepathic Psion subclass, or for the base class to include a lot of those features.

 

[TwoSix]

I think Mearls will come around to that eventually, if for no other reason than because there’s demand for it.

Having watched the stream and seen his process, I think I have a good sense of his train of thought:
There needs to be a Psionic/Arcane hybrid option > wizard is the best core class to handle that > a telepath is a strong flavor match for a Psionic wizard > if the Psionic wizard is a telepath, we don’t need the Psion core class to cover the same ground.

But the telepath is right up there with the telekinetic in the list of most iconic expressions of the Psion. It’s one of the Psionic archetypes that people who want to play a Psion think of, so that should be doable without having to also be a wizard. And I think as Mearls continues to iterate on this design, that’s going to become clearer. The Psion is going to end up feeling like it’s missing a core part of its identity as a class, and that’s going to lead towards a push either for a telepathic Psion subclass, or for the base class to include a lot of those features.

Personally, I kind of feel like the Sorcerer is a better home for a Psionic-Arcane hybrid; the classic "mutant" feel of "oh my goodness, I can read people's minds!" Wizard and the future Psion look like they'll both be Int-based, so they could multiclass pretty easily.

 

[Mistwell]

Talk about reinventing the wheel.

What's the production status? Another year of UA? Two? Or just more endless video doodling?

Or are they actually going to give us 5E psionics before we go into retirement..?

Do you need some poems on the virtue and benefit of patience? I can do haiku too.

 

[MechaTarrasque]

Talk about reinventing the wheel.

What's the production status? Another year of UA? Two? Or just more endless video doodling?

Or are they actually going to give us 5E psionics before we go into retirement..?

Retirement? No need for that.

I have already predicted 6e will be in 30-point font, and now I predict that the biggest supplement of 6e will be the trained dice-rolling monkey for arthritic DM's......

 

[MechaTarrasque]

I would be okay with this class if they take the most recent mystic class features and make it alternative sorcerer class features.

 

[Yaarel]

A telepath wizard can still represent telepathy at level 1, by means of selecting psionic cantrips.

A human ‘mutant’ might also select a psionic feat.

 

[Yaarel]

Regarding abilities:

The psion focusing on physical phenomena (telekinesis, teleportation, force construction) makes more sense with Intelligence and Wisdom.

However the bard (?) focusing on social phenomena (telepathy, enchantment, phantasmal illusion, fate) makes more sense with Charisma and Wisdom.

Shapechanging (metamorph psion) can go either way, social identity or physical form, but either way, Wisdom is most prominent. (Compare the druid Wisdom for wildshaping into beast and elemental forms).

 

[Mercule]

Personally, I kind of feel like the Sorcerer is a better home for a Psionic-Arcane hybrid; the classic "mutant" feel of "oh my goodness, I can read people's minds!" Wizard and the future Psion look like they'll both be Int-based, so they could multiclass pretty easily.

I agree with this. Most folks I know/knew used psionics to represent "magic in the blood" or "weird powers" in AD&D and even 3E. Yes, the 3E sorcerer was supposed to represent unknown origin to magic, but, again, everyone I knew just ignored the whole dragon blood thing and used it as an alternate mechanic for Wizards where you sacrificed one kind of flexibility (change every day) for another (no per-slot lock-in) -- psionics remained the way magic in the blood was handled.

If the PHB was a bit looser about whether the VSM components were standardized vs. improved/customized, I think one of the best options for psionics in 5E would be to just refine the fluff around Sorcerer and add subclasses like Mentalist, Tainted (by the Far Realms), Psychokinetic, etc. Wild Talents just use the Magic Initiate feat. Add a psychic warrior subclass to Fighter, Ardent for Bard (which I think works rather well, actually), Soul Knife for Monk, etc. just like the Wizard-flavored sub-classes.

I wouldn't really object to creating a separate class or two. Once you start getting into subclasses for other classes --especially other full casters -- it doesn't make as much sense. Just use the Sorcerer.

 

[Staffan]

If the PHB was a bit looser about whether the VSM components were standardized vs. improved/customized, I think one of the best options for psionics in 5E would be to just refine the fluff around Sorcerer and add subclasses like Mentalist, Tainted (by the Far Realms), Psychokinetic, etc. Wild Talents just use the Magic Initiate feat. Add a psychic warrior subclass to Fighter, Ardent for Bard (which I think works rather well, actually), Soul Knife for Monk, etc. just like the Wizard-flavored sub-classes.

IMO, using the sorcerer (possibly with a new subclass) to "fake" a psion works in a limited context, such as running a one-shot where that character is the psion. Then, it works fine using judicious spell selection (possibly branching out of the regular sorcerer list for some things, e.g. heat metal). But I don't think there's enough meat there to support multiple different psions with different directions, the way you can make a lot of different wizards using the core rules.

 

[Mercule]

IMO, using the sorcerer (possibly with a new subclass) to "fake" a psion works in a limited context, such as running a one-shot where that character is the psion. Then, it works fine using judicious spell selection (possibly branching out of the regular sorcerer list for some things, e.g. heat metal). But I don't think there's enough meat there to support multiple different psions with different directions, the way you can make a lot of different wizards using the core rules.

See, I don't even think of it as "faking" the psion, though. To me, the definition of a psion is someone who does supernatural things by drawing on the inner pool of power some accident of birth endowed them with. That view and usage predates the existence of the Sorcerer class.

The 3E Sorcerer was added just to give people a way to play an arcane caster without having to deal with the worst aspects of the psuedo-Vancian system. It had absolutely zero thematic powers. Those were added in to justify its continued existence in the later editions that were more mechanically clean for Wizards. The thematic aspect of Sorcerers addresses a problem that wasn't actually a problem. The Psion is the class that gets magic (by any other name) because of their nature.

I'm fine with adding a "Mystic" class that mainly just gives more visibility to the Monk's ki (like 4E did by putting Psion and Monk under the same power source). I'd expressly like to avoid the stupid ectoplasm, chimes, symbiote skins, and ambulatory crystals of 3E, though.

I'm not horribly opposed to the idea of creating a new Psion class, from scratch (as long as the ectoplasm doesn't come with it), and baking variety into the spell list(s), etc. But, really, it'll just end up being "the Sorcerer done better". You don't need both classes, thematically. Both are supposed to represent characters that have innate magic. These characters shouldn't all have the same spell list. Things like the Divine Soul and some others that have come out of UA with modified lists should be the norm.