-
The VOIDRUNNER'S CODEX is coming! Explore new worlds, fight oppressive empires, fend off fearsome aliens, and wield deadly psionics with this comprehensive boxed set expansion for 5E and A5E!
Psionics: Balance and Integration
- Thread starter Bront
- Start date
Rystil Arden
First Post
Absolutely, although it was somewhat embarrassing when another player forwarded me a message from the DM to him that read, "As far as what character you would like to play, Ryan is playing a frontline Fighter, so you can try to fill any other slot you want because Rystil doesn't really help at any of them."SJ said:
CM
Adventurer
One key point that hasn't been mentioned yet as far as I can see is that psionic characters, with the right powers, are able to dish out their damage much more quickly than the equivalent arcane classes, but they burn out that much faster. In order to keep them balanced with the other party members, you will need to increase the number of encounters per day if you're allowing them to rest freely after only one or two encounters.
I have a twinked-out wilder in my 16th-level campaign who's able to dish out 100+ point elemental rays every round, but he burns through all his psps after only a minute or so. He's paranoid now though, after being caught in a fight without any psps left, so he has become more conservative in the use of his powers.
I have a twinked-out wilder in my 16th-level campaign who's able to dish out 100+ point elemental rays every round, but he burns through all his psps after only a minute or so. He's paranoid now though, after being caught in a fight without any psps left, so he has become more conservative in the use of his powers.
Rystil Arden
First Post
100 isn't really that much at level 16. A well-built sorcerer or warmage could easily throw around about 100 in area effect damage as well. None of the psionic classes can really beat a warmage on direct damage.CM said:One key point that hasn't been mentioned yet as far as I can see is that psionic characters, with the right powers, are able to dish out their damage much more quickly than the equivalent arcane classes, but they burn out that much faster. In order to keep them balanced with the other party members, you will need to increase the number of encounters per day if you're allowing them to rest freely after only one or two encounters.
I have a twinked-out wilder in my 16th-level campaign who's able to dish out 100+ point elemental rays every round, but he burns through all his psps after only a minute or so. He's paranoid now though, after being caught in a fight without any psps left, so he has become more conservative in the use of his powers.
CM
Adventurer
Rystil Arden said:
I guess what I'm trying to say is that psionic classes are easier to twink out than nonpsionic classes. When you hear about optimized nonpsionic classes, it's always through specific combinations of prestige classes, magic items, and feats (metamagic rods, I'm looking at YOU!). For the psionic character, all you really need is a good selection of powers and you're already pushing the envelope of balance with the other party members.
While I don't think psionics are by default unbalanced, it takes some extra work on the DM's part to make sure the psion doesn't overpower the other player characters.
Rystil Arden
First Post
Since psionics lacks a set of those crazy feats and items, that helps make it balanced. Also, your wilder probably had a sizeable chance to zap herself into being stunned and losing PPs with Wild Surge every time she tried that trick. Importantly, the psionic characters can't use lots of metamagic because of focus issues.CM said:
Also, my psion selected a good set of powers for what he wanted to do, and he is basically worthless according to my DM, so not all psionic characters immediately push the envelope.
Benben
First Post
SJ said:
Testify brother.
Mind thurst is a bottle of joy for me. I'm playing a seerer who isn't optimized for combat at all. It's a miracle that he hasn't been killed half a dozen times already--although there was that deadly ladder. Anyway, being able to overchannel and mind thrust for 12D10 dice of damage is some of the most fun I've ever had in D&D.
Regarding the balance issue of psions: yes it's very easy to optimize a psion, but due to the lack of powers, they are very likely to be a one trick pony. Even if you aren't using psionic monsters the PC will eventually encounter an enemy who knows how to counter or at least defend against the psion's trick. From a campaign view point this helps immensely.
Plane Sailing
Astral Admin - Mwahahaha!
Eberron is an ideal campaign to use psionics in, because it has a place, a reason, built in psionic enemies to use etc.
There are some powers that you have to look at carefully. Energy Stun for instance looks like an error since it gives +1 DC per pp instead of per 2pp like everything else. Others have already mentioned Dispel Psionics where the augmentation rules seem grossly overpowered.
I personally don't like the way that the energy powers can be configured on the fly - partly because it means opponents energy resistance is largely useless against psions and partly for flavour reasons.
To my mind Astral Construct would be OK if they were hedged out by Protection from Evil like summoned critters. The fact that they can walk through that arcane defence without having any comparable generally-available weaknesses is a problem when considering all their other benefits. I've not seen them in play extensively though, so take that with a pinch of salt!
One warning. If you have a campaign with one encounter per day on a wilderness trek the psion will start to outshine everyone else. His total capacity is no more than a wizard or sorcerer but he can burn all his pp on effectively his highest level powers, while the wizard or sorcerer has only a few of his highest level spell slots available. In a dungeon or extended series of encounters they are just fine, if they have one encounter per day they can be trouble.
Cheers
There are some powers that you have to look at carefully. Energy Stun for instance looks like an error since it gives +1 DC per pp instead of per 2pp like everything else. Others have already mentioned Dispel Psionics where the augmentation rules seem grossly overpowered.
I personally don't like the way that the energy powers can be configured on the fly - partly because it means opponents energy resistance is largely useless against psions and partly for flavour reasons.
To my mind Astral Construct would be OK if they were hedged out by Protection from Evil like summoned critters. The fact that they can walk through that arcane defence without having any comparable generally-available weaknesses is a problem when considering all their other benefits. I've not seen them in play extensively though, so take that with a pinch of salt!
One warning. If you have a campaign with one encounter per day on a wilderness trek the psion will start to outshine everyone else. His total capacity is no more than a wizard or sorcerer but he can burn all his pp on effectively his highest level powers, while the wizard or sorcerer has only a few of his highest level spell slots available. In a dungeon or extended series of encounters they are just fine, if they have one encounter per day they can be trouble.
Cheers
Testament
First Post
Powers that need to be fixed:
Energy Stun/Missile: The augmentation stream needs to be fixed, the DC scales way too fast! Set it to 1 point on the DC for 2PPs like all the other Energy chain, and its better. Remove Energy Missile's ability to target attended objects too, Sonic Missiles were just disgusting before.
Psionic Suggestion: Scale back it's duration to a round a level, like normal Suggestion. As it is, its beserk.
Psionic Dominate: I don't know what to do here, the errata made it truly insane. That's right, the errata made something MORE BROKEN!
Thicken Skin: As it is now, its an enchancement bonus to AC. Just says AC. The flavour text says natural armour.
Death Urge: Needs clarification, when someone crits themselves with it, will they Power Attack? Get your GM to make a decision on it SOON.
<FEAT>Metamorphic Transfer: Ban it. Now. It ramps up Metamorphosis/Polymorph to a lesser Shapechange.
Otherwise, Psionics I find is pretty balanced. In my Arcanis party, we have a Wilder who's dedicated himself to blasting (Expanded Knowledge: Energy Missile), and he's horrifyingly good at it, his kill total is higher than the barbarian. Thing is though, every time he manifests, he's taking a chance, and he's only avoided absolute disaster from it through the help of party members.
All Psionic characters are one trick ponies, their inability to buff other party members or do anything outside their discipline with any proficiency keeps them balanced. And in an adventure with multiple encounters, they start to panic, since they can empty that tank SOOOO fast. Especially Wilders.
And on Telepaths, while they have probably the most absurd powers, don't forget that EVERY SINGLE POWER in their list has that little descriptor [Mind Affecting].
Energy Stun/Missile: The augmentation stream needs to be fixed, the DC scales way too fast! Set it to 1 point on the DC for 2PPs like all the other Energy chain, and its better. Remove Energy Missile's ability to target attended objects too, Sonic Missiles were just disgusting before.
Psionic Suggestion: Scale back it's duration to a round a level, like normal Suggestion. As it is, its beserk.
Psionic Dominate: I don't know what to do here, the errata made it truly insane. That's right, the errata made something MORE BROKEN!
Thicken Skin: As it is now, its an enchancement bonus to AC. Just says AC. The flavour text says natural armour.
Death Urge: Needs clarification, when someone crits themselves with it, will they Power Attack? Get your GM to make a decision on it SOON.
<FEAT>Metamorphic Transfer: Ban it. Now. It ramps up Metamorphosis/Polymorph to a lesser Shapechange.
Otherwise, Psionics I find is pretty balanced. In my Arcanis party, we have a Wilder who's dedicated himself to blasting (Expanded Knowledge: Energy Missile), and he's horrifyingly good at it, his kill total is higher than the barbarian. Thing is though, every time he manifests, he's taking a chance, and he's only avoided absolute disaster from it through the help of party members.
All Psionic characters are one trick ponies, their inability to buff other party members or do anything outside their discipline with any proficiency keeps them balanced. And in an adventure with multiple encounters, they start to panic, since they can empty that tank SOOOO fast. Especially Wilders.
And on Telepaths, while they have probably the most absurd powers, don't forget that EVERY SINGLE POWER in their list has that little descriptor [Mind Affecting].
Similar Threads
