D&D 5E Psionics - What do you want?

[Khaalis]

When the topic of psionics is brought up, what comes to your mind for how you'd like to see the system work? Do you want to see psionics be just another variant of spells (i.e. 3E), something using a mix of 5E sorcerer and warlock mechanics (e.g. Invocations, Power Points)? Or do you picture an entirely new mechanic for psionics, such as say Tome of Magic's Shadowcaster?

I'd like to get a feel for people's general ideas and feelings on how they'd like to see Psionics handled. In the past, Psionics was treated just like another form of magic but instead of vancian spell slots, you used power points. Granted 5E's current magic users are already a mix of concept in that you can "augment" spells by casting them at higher spell level and the sorcerer through sorcery points, but to me adding a Psi class that's just like the other "caster" classes seems redundant.

I ask because I am thinking of putting together some work on a starting psionic class. In my vision, I see starting with a base class that has 3 subclasses.

Base Class: Psionicist or Psion
Subclasses:
* Telepath of Psychic (focuses on Clairsentience and Telepathy disciplines)
* Telekinetic or Kineticist (focuses on Metacreativity and Psychokinesis)
* Psychic Warrior (focuses on Psychometabolism, Psi-weapon and Psychoportation)


However a different approach might be to look at Psi from a more modern (literary/cinematic) view and break it down into the most common Psi Groups:

* EMPATHS: Sense & Read emotions of others, Manipulate emotions of others and the self [e.g. Rage, Protection from Fear, Cause Fear, induce apathy, etc.]

* PSI-WARRIORS/KNIGHTS: focus on typical psychometabolic powers of the body; psi-weapons; combat awareness; minor psychoportative powers, etc. (typical Psi-gish)

* SEERS: Clairvoyance (or 2nd-Sight), death warning, divination (scrying, augury, dowsing), channeling (medium communing with the spirits/dead), precognition, retrocognition (seeing the past)

* SHADOWS: Psychophotonics (manipulation of light/dark), apportation (dimension door shadow hopping), astral projection, incorporeality, possession, thoughtforms or tulpas (psychic illusions)

* TELEPATHS: Telepathy (mental communication), memory manipulation, mind control, mental surgery, mind blasts

* TELEKINETICS: Psychokinesis (mind over matter), pyrokinesis, cryokinesis, transvection (mind over magnetism and force - levitation, flight, force push, forcefield), Transmutation of matter


So those are just some basic starting places for psionics.

What do You see ass the direction psionics should go?

 

[Olgar Shiverstone]

They deserve to be in their own unique and special Psionics Handbook. Maybe one that assumes Dark Sun as its base setting.

 

[shadow]

I would like to see psionics handled more like they were in 2e. I felt that 3e psionics were just wizard spells with a spell point mechanic and a slightly different flavor.

 

[Siphersh]

Other recent threads about the same topic:

showthread.php?356510-5E-psionics
showthread.php?358868-What-do-you-think-a-psychic-class-should-look-like-in-5e

 

[steeldragons]

I have no doubt that a Psionics manual will have heavy reference to Dark Sun. Their trend in multi-media co-/inter-dependence branding makes that a given, in my mind. I am just hoping that the Psionics rules and classes are not written to Dark Sun, if that makes sense. Variants and specifics of the setting can be handled in the Dark Sun setting material...of which I also have little doubt there will be.

Psychic powers for the general/typical/non-DS game, I very much hope, are their own thing.

For my own game system (in the throes of being rewritten) the "Psychic" is wrapped within the Wizards group of classes. Those classes with unknown/unexplainable/strange abilities, which most often includes Arcane magic - but doesn't in this case- who one could see in action and say "They're a wizard/sorcerer/witch!" and possibly suffer consequences (good or ill) for being labelled as such.

The base class: Psychic is dependent on all three mental ability attributes.
They use "Wizard class group" HD, limited weapons (though more than just dagger and staff), and access to Light armor (no shields though).
Level + mental ability modifiers = Power (or Psy-, if one prefers) Points [PP].
Power Points are used at will, as needed, per day. These regenerate at a given speed and renew completely after [to use the current 5e parlance] a "long rest." A minimum of 1 hour meditation/centering process is required at the beginning of the day to maintain/balance with the fluff of clerics/druids prayers/meditation and the mages' book study period...marshaling their internal resources for the coming day. This can, obviously be easily removed/houseruled to suit a given table if, say, you don't play with that "preparing at the beginning of the day" thing.

They are all awarded a small suite of generic [for lack of a better term] or low level-type (and low PP cost) psychic powers. This has the benefit of giving a ready-made list of expected powers to psychically aware/capable monsters as well without having to "build" a whole psychic-class abilities of the creature.

ALSO, it would be incredibly easy for a table that wants to use old style "random chance of being psionic" to allow non-psychic characters to simply add up their Int, Wis and Cha modifers and gain access to one, some, or even all of these "basic/low level psychic ability or awareness", to add a dimension to their PC or engage in (again, basic) "psychic combat." Your ranger who can empathize with animals, your Jedi-style psychic warrior with little telekinetic "bumps" to his jumping and throwing things, your mage with an inkling of prescience, your faye-bloodline vampire-loving who can read minds...but do nothing else to effect them, your cleric who seems perfectly ordinary until a demon tries to read their mind or possess them and finds their psyche unassailable (a clear gift of their deity as far as the cleric is concerned)...all of this would be possible without even having a Psychic class in your game.

But the Psychic's true abilities lie in their choice of Discipline.
Telepathy or Telekinetics, as the most widely useful, best known, the broadest possibilities of character types and conducive to an "adventurer" are the options to begin play. Further Disciplines will be introduced later in the game...and/or may be taken up as the Psychic gains levels. But it seemed to make sense that the Telepath and Teke should be the jump off point as pretty much all psychic powers ever used in literature, comics and/or games can boil down to one of those two things.

Each has their own suite of powers that range in the number of PP they require to use (generally speaking "per round per mind or object weight effected/moved" for the direct things like reading/attacking minds or throwing/levitating objects.). If a Psychic wants to nova-out all of the PP on a power that would be the equivalent of a 5th level spell or so, and they have the points, go for it! Now you just have no mental reserves left to do anything else until you rest.

The Seer and Elementalist (telekinetics specific to a particular element- including everyone's favorite angry teen/arsonist "pyrokinetics") would come in as Discipline options later.

There will also be an "Overextend" mechanic (that I won't detail here) to allow Psychics to push themselves beyond their normal limits...burning through damage to their physical being as a way to maintain powers or use bigger powers in only the most dire emergencies...since 1) these points will renew at a significantly slower pace than straight psy-points and 2) You could literally "burn out" your psychic powers entirely, if not kill yourself by pushing too far.

So that's what I'm hoping to see (and not hoping, as I would like to get it out first. hahaha).

But my biggest thing is that the Psychic's Handbook/Manual/Guide not just be "welcome to Dark Sun" book.

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

I like the psychic warrior but there's already lots of beat-em-up classes.

For psions, I'd like to see the following:
*Wisdom-based, not Intelligence-based.
*Specializations by discipline that give a bonus to that discipline, rather than restricting your powers too much. (I don't like the idea of a telepath who is completely useless when going tomb-raiding. Not being able to use the specialty is fine. Having powers that don't affect undead at all is not.)
*If you can't make enough specialist powers, then don't bother with the subclass. For instance, it's really hard to come up with attack powers for Clairsentience or Psychoportation. Those sound like "specialty feats" instead. (A "seer" might be a telepath or psychokineticist with the seer feat. And yes this does mean the pure seer archetype isn't playable. Since they don't have adventuring skills, that's not a real loss.)
*Respect what wizards should be better at. For instance, psions shouldn't outdamage wizards, even if you're a damage-focused psychokinetic specialist. Your powers should be different; lots of untyped or force damage with effects such as knocking opponents prone or away from you and/or allies. (The 3.5 psion had powers that actually outdamaged the wizard at most levels.)
*Steal a bunch of the coolest powers from other editions. It's too bad 5e doesn't use 4e-style rituals, as there's lots of old 2e powers that could have become rituals, like those that let you hibernate...
*No maintenance costs or extra rolls.

 

[Sadrik]

*Wisdom-based, not Intelligence-based.

Agreed.
INT arcane figure it out and unlock it
WIS innate internally intuit the power
CHA divine relationship with an entity

*Specializations by discipline that give a bonus to that discipline, rather than restricting your powers too much. (I don't like the idea of a telepath who is completely useless when going tomb-raiding. Not being able to use the specialty is fine. Having powers that don't affect undead at all is not.)

Two ways of handing it. Some telepath abilities should not be dependent on the creature having a mind. Or grant them limited access to other powers.

Another possible route is through creature design, don't make blanket immunities. All undead should not be immune to mind effecting, only mindless ones.

Vermin should not be immune to a telepath.

*If you can't make enough specialist powers, then don't bother with the subclass. For instance, it's really hard to come up with attack powers for Clairsentience or Psychoportation. Those sound like "specialty feats" instead. (A "seer" might be a telepath or psychokineticist with the seer feat. And yes this does mean the pure seer archetype isn't playable. Since they don't have adventuring skills, that's not a real loss.)

Also agreed. Many of the psion themes are also major themes of arcane casters:
Clarsentience = divination
Psychoportation = conjuration
Telepath = enchantment
Psychokinetist = evocation
Also time manipulation is a theme they have but also fits into the arcane area of transmutation

This makes me think, should these other arcane sub-classes benefit from these similar themes? my answer is they should. Psions will assuredly take some of the spells/powers from the arcane classes they should give some to them as well. Further a psionic monk subclass would be good.

*Respect what wizards should be better at. For instance, psions shouldn't outdamage wizards, even if you're a damage-focused psychokinetic specialist. Your powers should be different; lots of untyped or force damage with effects such as knocking opponents prone or away from you and/or allies. (The 3.5 psion had powers that actually outdamaged the wizard at most levels.)

Agreed though a psychic "firestarter" might have access to fireball and they should do equal damage to the wizard.

*Steal a bunch of the coolest powers from other editions. It's too bad 5e doesn't use 4e-style rituals, as there's lots of old 2e powers that could have become rituals, like those that let you hibernate...

Yeah, that would be cool.

*No maintenance costs or extra rolls.

I think make them vancian casters and them allow other optional mechanics from the dmg to allow power/spell points.

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

Agreed though a psychic "firestarter" might have access to fireball and they should do equal damage to the wizard.

I always think of firestarters as specialists in spontaneous combustion. This is basically high single-target damage, probably targeting Fort. It would require concentration to keep at it, but on the other hand you can keep the damage on if you maintain of. Of course, that might be totally broken, I've only tested an NPC with a similar ability like this in 4e.

Even if the damage is comparable, or even higher since it's single-target, it's not stepping on the wizard's toes too much.

 

[Nellisir]

I typically don't allow psionics because they boil down to "spellcasting with points". If you can think of a niche for psionics that makes it both interesting and not simply a variant spellcasting system, that'd be a plus in my book.

 

[The Shadow]

Base Class: Psionicist or Psion
Subclasses:
* Telepath of Psychic (focuses on Clairsentience and Telepathy disciplines)
* Telekinetic or Kineticist (focuses on Metacreativity and Psychokinesis)
* Psychic Warrior (focuses on Psychometabolism, Psi-weapon and Psychoportation)

I like this idea. Though I think the Psychic Warrior could easily be a subclass of Fighter instead.

I could also see folding Psychoportation into the Kineticist.