Published persistent mega-dungeons

[S'mon]

TSR's 2e Greyhawk Ruins is definitely a persistent megadungeon IMO, and not a bad one either. That it is not Gary's Greyhawk doesn't change that.

 

[jasonzavoda]

I was wondering where this thread appeared from and then I saw the Necromancy.

There is some divergence here in the Mega's being talked about, Mega-Dungeon, Mega-City, Mega-Campaign.

Castle Whiterock from Goodman is definitely a Mega-Dungeon
Ptolus - a Mega-City
Night Below - A Mega-Campaign

Mega-Dungeons

Blackmoor (There is a massive book from Zeitgeist Games as well)
Castle Whiterock
Greyhawk Ruins (and Expedition to)
Rappan Athuk (Reloaded)
Ruins of Undermountain (I, II and supplemental adventures)
World Largest pile of... I mean Dungeon.

I would say that to be Mega a dungeon must approach the size and notoriety of these. There must be a certain critical mass of material, rather than just judgement of quality. Does Stonehell dungeon, for example, approach the amount of material gathered in Rappan Athuk Reloaded? (I have just the one Stonehell dungeon book. Are there more?) If not then I wouldn't put it up as Mega just yet. are the Temple of Elemental Evil adventures more Dungeon or Campaign? I only have dim memories of the Return to TOEE and haunting nightmares of the computer generated village of Hommlet map.

What am I missing?

 

[Kurtomatic]

Dragon's Delve [dungeonaday.com] just started releasing encounters for Level 16...

[sblock].., a bottle city no less.[/sblock]

 

[Theodric the Obscure]

My pleasure, Odhanan! I know that Taliesin would love to hear from you, if you have any questions or comments for him.

 

[grodog]

So my idea of a campaign dungeon includes the concept that it should support multiple levels of play, and that it should be able to support more than one group rising through their PC levels, and that it should be large and open ended enough to support all that without becoming empty and "beaten." That means you'll need very large levels for the first few levels, especially (where there's a lot more exploration and a lot more PC attrition). You'll also need a lot of dynamism, so that sections of the dungeon can repopulate, adapt, and change as play continues. The need for these elements is one reason why I like the mythic underworld concept for these kinds of dungeons. It provides some justification for the expansiveness and the weirdness and the changeability that makes a campaign-style dungeon viable and interesting, without just throwing the ideas of ecology, purpose, and verisimilitude out the window.

Great summary, as always Jason!

 

[grodog]

3. There should be distinct levels - layers or regions of the "dungeon" - by which the players can choose their difficulty and mark their progress. There should be multiple methods of traversing from level to level and there should be occasional means by which the players can involuntarily wind up on levels beyond their aim, so long as it become obvious fairly immediately that they've done so. ("Oh my God! We've wandered down to the 6th level!!!")

In addition, I think that there should be many connections between levels, such that players nearly always have the option of being tempted to delve deeper. Nothing beats the play when trying to "score just one more" with dwindling resources!

Some other defining characteristics worth considering:

- the mega-dungeon should be located sufficiently near to a major town or city that the PCs can dispose of goods and treasure there (as well as be assessed levies, taxes, fees, fines, etc.)
- the mega-dungeon should still be closely connected to rest of the campaign setting, including not only the settlement, but other far away regions/locations, and perhaps other dungeons or planes, too
- there should be multiple entrances to the mega-dungeon, including some hidden ones, ones that access deeper levels, and ones that come in from other locations (from the town, from gates from other locations/planes, etc.)
- the mega-dungeon, some of its features, and some of its inhabitants should be legendary within the campaign world, and should appropriately awe/terrify the players when they finally encounter them: the DM can develop these elements through actual play, as well as seed hints, teasers, and such via NPCs/lore/etc.; think of "The Black Reservoir" from Castle Greyhawk, or the Fireplace level from Undermountain, or The Well from Rappan Athuk
- finding hidden, unexplored levels, sub-levels, or regions within levels should be as much of a reward as finding cool treasure and monsters, sometimes: the mega-dungeon DM can really pull out all the stops for such "specials"
- the levels should be sufficiently large for players to get lost---not sure which level their on, not sure where in the level they are, not sure how to get out or at least to get back somewhere they can get out from!