Pulling out someone elses weapon.

[IceBear]

Lifting someones wallet (not designed to be pulled out quickly in combat) while their walking is probably just as tricky as pulling out their longsword (designed to be pulled out quickly) in combat. That's the closest skill there is to "taking something out of someone's pockets"

But see, I see a pickpocket attempt as being restricted by the nature of the attempt to take the item.

Scenario 1: A pickpocket moves next to his mark trying not to attract attention and then makes a deft move to take the wallet.

Scenario 2: A brute walks up to a man, grabs him, and pulls out his wallet.

I would say the actually taking of the wallet is easier in scenario 2 because the brute doesn't care. Yes, I know part of the pick pocket skill is to see if you do it unnoticed, but I think that BECAUSE of that part, the actual DC to take the item increases. And again, pickpocket is limited to small items.

IceBear

 

[kreynolds]

Now, if a rogue was in that position I could see allowing the rogue a pickpocket check to simulate his skill at doing this, but I'd stick with the opposed roll otherwise.

I won't do this because I might as well let fighters use Disable Device but at a much higher DC. I believe in preserving the exclusive skills, ya' know? I'm just real hyped up about the uniqueness of each class.

 

[kreynolds]

I would say the actually taking of the wallet is easier in scenario 2 because the brute doesn't care. Yes, I know part of the pick pocket skill is to see if you do it unnoticed, but I think that BECAUSE of that part, the actual DC to take the item increases. And again, pickpocket is limited to small items.

IceBear

Icebear, I think the root of your problem is that you would rather see Pick Pocket work differently, such as variable DCs that would be based upon style as well as subtlety. Why don't ya' whip somethin' up. I'd be interested to see that.

 

[IceBear]

Well, if they have rules for grabbing items out of someone's hands without using pickpockets, I don't see this as being at much different.

I don't like unnecessary restrictions. If a player comes up with a cool idea I'm not going to just say "NO". Thus, I'd follow the logic through

Option #1 Fighter:
1) Well, you need to get your hand on the hilt - touch attack
2) You need to pull it out, but he's going to try to move to block that, so make an opposed Dex check to see who's quicker. Tada

Option #2 Rogue:
Same as #1, unless the player says, I think I could do it easier with a pickpocket's check. Then I'd allow him to choose.

I don't consider this allowing fighters to crowd into a rogue's domain. The fighter will never do it without someone noticing and he has to make two rolls opposed to one to do it so the odds of failure are higher. It's just a means to allow PCs flexibilty.

IceBear

 

[IceBear]

Icebear, I think the root of your problem is that you would rather see Pick Pocket work differently, such as variable DCs that would be based upon style as well as subtlety. Why don't ya' whip somethin' up. I'd be interested to see that.

No, I just don't see forcing myself into the corner where the only way I would allow a PC to take an item from someone is via pickpockets.

They have the framework for doing so - taking a wand from a wizard - in the DNDFAQ and they never use pickpockets there.

That's all I'm saying - I like options, you don't like classes treading on each other's toes.

IceBear

 

[Lord Ben]

A fighter could always do a dex check at the same DC as the pickpocket... I just don't see a fighter being very good at pulling something off someone.

Nowhere in the pickpocket discription does it say that it's limited to small items, that's just the sample DC.

It's not useable all the time, I imagine it'd prevoke an AO which is why the rogue in question would do it to the fighter who has a longspear.

 

[IceBear]

A fighter could always do a dex check at the same DC as the pickpocket... I just don't see a fighter being very good at pulling something off someone.

Nowhere in the pickpocket discription does it say that it's limited to small items, that's just the sample DC.

It's not useable all the time, I imagine it'd prevoke an AO which is why the rogue in question would do it to the fighter who has a longspear.

Neither do I. I wasn't suggesting anywhere that this method would be easier. I would be throwing penalties in there as needed, it's just that my players hate being told they can't even try something, no matter how unlikely they will be to succeed. That's why I conceded that I would probably allow a rogue a choice of this method or pickpockets - whatever he was most likely to succeed at. Everyone else would be stuck with the more difficult method.

IceBear

 

[Lord Ben]

I didn't say they couldn't try, I just see pickpocket as being the best way around it. Half the rogues don't even take it.

 

[IceBear]

I didn't say they couldn't try, I just see pickpocket as being the best way around it. Half the rogues don't even take it.

But you can't even try pickpockets untrained...that's why I was saying how I would handle a fighter trying it.

IceBear

 

[Lord Ben]

Ah, I see. That's silly, you should always be able to try a skill like pickpocket.