Pulp Noir

[JPL]

I haven't actually read or played the adventures, so I can't comment. From the descriptions, they sounded more on the pulp [cliffhanger] end of the spectrum.

It might be an overgeneralization to say that pulp is about plot and noir is about character...but there's some truth to that idea.

I think your analysis is right on the money --- to make a noir RPG work, the DM and players need to develop strong, flawed, complicated characters with conflicting agendas.

While not an "adventure" per se, I think the Sharn guidebook greatly faciliates a noirish Eberron campaign, just by virtue of introducing a big, dangerous city and plenty of those strong, flawed, complicated characters with conflicting agendas. And the city is one of the main characters in noir --- sometimes the protagonist's ally, sometimes his enemy. A noir hero needs to understand the city --- who the players are, what the rules are [both inside and outside of the law], and what the consequences are for breaking the rules.

 

[Bobitron]

Hear, hear, JPL. Great post regarding Sharn as a noir setiing, and characterizing the published Eberron adventures as pulp is spot on.

 

[JPL]

Thanks.

I assume that the designers of Eberron have sufficient understanding of genre to understand what noir is. To some extent, the conventions of noir and pulp [again, in the cliffhanger / high adventure sense of the term] are in conflict with one another. Perhaps in any given product, we might see more of one than the other.

And both pulp and noir are just seasoning --- the main course in Eberron is "Dungeons and Dragons," which is a genre unto itself. Keith et al have made that clear from day one.

 

[fuindordm]

Thanks.

I assume that the designers of Eberron have sufficient understanding of genre to understand what noir is. To some extent, the conventions of noir and pulp [again, in the cliffhanger / high adventure sense of the term] are in conflict with one another. Perhaps in any given product, we might see more of one than the other.

And both pulp and noir are just seasoning --- the main course in Eberron is "Dungeons and Dragons," which is a genre unto itself. Keith et al have made that clear from day one.

You must admit, it's a lot easier to write a pulpy module than a noir module. I agree that all the offerings so far have been pulp--but they're trying to sell those adventures to a wide audience. Modules are already pretty unprofitable for them, and I wouldn't be suprised if a noir module was a net loss.

Ben

 

[Hellcow]

JPL has really made every point I might make, and probably better than I would have made them myself. The thing is that "pulp/noir" isn't a single thing - it's "pulp and/or noir". Eberron was designed to support both styles of play, but that doesn't mean that every adventure or novel will incorporate both tones, since they're quite different. If you're raiding the lost temple of the giants in Xen'drik, that's going to have more of a pulp feel. If you're caught between Daask and the Boromars in Sharn, that hopefully is more noir. The possibility for grey alignment exists to support noir adventures, but when you just want white hats and black hats, take on the Order of the Emerald Claw (though hey, even they are just being patriotic...).


Of my own adventures, the only one really intended to have a noir tone would be Steel Shadows, and even that was simplified a bit (originally there was a sort of Chinatown-ish House Cannith subplot, but it ran long). I would agree that the market is wider for pulp-style adventure - but I certainly wanted the option for darker and more complex play to be present in the world.

 

[JPL]

JPL has really made every point I might make, and probably better than I would have made them myself.

DAMN YOU! IT WAS MINE!

Sorry. Burning jealousy.

 

[Damonoir]

I agree with everything you folks are saying. Now you see my dilemma. Writing noir for a group is terribly difficult. Noir is really made as a "one man journey" thru a dark world. You meet guys along the way but really its a one man's view of this world. I love some supplemental reading I have done on Noir RPG's but to put it into action and to sustain a campaign with a group of 5 doesn't seem plausible.

Pulp is far easier to run because its more over the top high adventure.

 

[Committed Hero]

Now you see my dilemma. Writing noir for a group is terribly difficult. Noir is really made as a "one man journey" thru a dark world. You meet guys along the way but really its a one man's view of this world. I love some supplemental reading I have done on Noir RPG's but to put it into action and to sustain a campaign with a group of 5 doesn't seem plausible.

I have trouble setting a noir atmosphere for groups over two....

Here are some suggestions:

Hint strongly that your players might lose battles but not the war. Then take them prisoner, have them meet the BBEG, steal their stuff, rough them up and dump them back on the street. Make sure beforehand that the players are willing to go through scenes like this, though - emphasize that equipment, friends, even themselves may prove ultimately unreliable.

Get each player to pick some sort of motivation - honor, protecting a weak NPC, whatever - and force the player to make choices that risk the destruction or abandonment of this concept. I wouldn't penalize anyone with XP loss or something like that, but make sure their failures and self-betrayals are obvious to would-be friends, and rubbed in their faces by opponents.

Also, consider splitting up the party into intertwining stories that will reinforce a climactic confrontation. This is not always the easiest thing to do with a large group, but if you have no-shows it may be useful in a pinch.