Pure Glow decimates minions?

[sirshandlar2]

Does Pure Glow (Morninglord [Paladin] lvl 11) auto-kill all minions in it's aoe?

I've been ruling that way since it does 10 damage to all enemies at the start of their turn, but it is really trivializing all encounters with minions unless I send them out in waves. The Paladin tends to lead off every encounter with it and the area of effect is close burst 5 which can usually hit 80-100% of the room/area. Has anyone else dealt with this power much?

~ Ryan

 

[tmatk]

Does Pure Glow (Morninglord [Paladin] lvl 11) auto-kill all minions in it's aoe?

I've been ruling that way since it does 10 damage to all enemies at the start of their turn, but it is really trivializing all encounters with minions unless I send them out in waves. The Paladin tends to lead off every encounter with it and the area of effect is close burst 5 which can usually hit 80-100% of the room/area. Has anyone else dealt with this power much?

~ Ryan

Unless they have resist 10 radiant, then it does kill them. Auto-damage makes minions kind of a joke. It's a fairly common house rule to give them a save vs death in these kind of situations.

 

[Hammerhead]

They're minions. They're supposed to suck. I generally half the XP value of nearly all the minions I use, and they're still bad.

But yeah, the other thing to do is to have them attack in waves instead of all at once.

 

[shadowoflameth]

Let him do it. Then once in a while give them minions with a rogue eidolon, or gargoyle with the demonic acolyte template. Then the minions within 5 of their boss gain resist all 20 or 25 while the boss is using stone form or hallowed stance. It also gives them one or two other resistances when the boss is in normal form. At paragon tier they get resist 10 to two, make one radiant, and while the minions are within 5 of the boss, they get it too.

 

[Quartz]

Designing monsters or encounters specifically to nerf a player's character is bad form. I'm not familiar with the power, but if it's an Encounter power, how about simply having a second wave? More fun (hehe) might be to have minions that do something when they die. Like become undead. But only after a few rounds - so clever players can stop it.

 

[sirshandlar2]

Good suggestions everyone. Thanks.

~ Ryan

 

[NotAYakk]

There are lots of houserules to 'fix' this. They include:

1> Give minions a bloodied state. If they take damage less than their level, they are bloodied (or dead if already bloodied).

2> When a minion takes less damage than their level, they get a save vs death. If they win it, they are fine.

3> Minions all share a HP pool and damage pool. This HP pool is equal to the sum of all the levels of minions in the encounter. When a minion takes damage, if it exceeds the minions level, the minion dies, and the HP pool loses the minion's HP. If it doesn't exceed the minion's level, add the damage to the damage pool. If the damage pool exceeds the minion's level, take the damage out of the damage pool and kill the minion.

---

#1 Adds state to minions.

#2 Is similar to 1, but no state.

Both 1 and 2 make passing the minion's level in damage a discontinuity. This can have in-game artifacts. The discontinuity is less under #2.

#3 makes the collection of minions act like a pseudo-monster. Every fraction of the collective HP causes some minions to drop. It takes some math. There are shortcuts to make the math easier.

For example, a fireball that deals 12 damage to level 15 minions. It hits 4 minions. This does 12*4 = 48 damage -- so 3 minions die. In particular, the last 3 hit. 3 damage remains in the minion damage pool.

 

[Skallgrim]

There are lots of houserules to 'fix' this. They include:

1> Give minions a bloodied state. If they take damage less than their level, they are bloodied (or dead if already bloodied).

This is a cool and neat idea, but I would also discuss it with players before implementation. Players may have made choices specifically based on minion removal and be a bit discouraged when you change the rules.

I'm thinking of two of my players, one of whom picked Stormwarden, not for the general awesomeness, but partially because he kept having trouble hitting some Vampire Minions, and realized he could just "clear them out" with the automatic damage. The other, the rogue, picked Shadow Assassin with particular attention to the DEX damage she can do whenever someone misses her with a melee attack (and plans on giving minions tons of opportunity attacks).

This house rule isn't bad, at all, but I would also consider letting players retrain for free if tactical decisions they made under earlier rules suddenly aren't effective.

 

[Elric]

My suggestion for a house rule dealing with the fact that minions die too easily to auto-damage.

Minions and auto-damage When PC’s deal “auto-damage” (damage that does not require an attack roll) against a minion, the player has to make a d20 roll, and get a result of 10 or higher, to reduce the minion to 0 HP. Minions still do not take “miss damage”, as usual.

There is one exception to this rule: 1) the rule does not apply to any damage PC’s deal using 1st level at-wills (e.g. Cleave, Cloud of Daggers, Greenflame Blade);

(The at-will exception is a little clunky, but one of the biggest problems with minions at high levels is the sheer number of auto-damage abilities that render them trivial to defeat. This helps to fix that problem in a way that’s easy to run. I think having the players roll to kill the minions is going to be more fun than having the minions save to avoid death and it keeps the odds somewhat more in the players' favor)

 

[Kalthanis]

I just send Minions out in waves. Any time a situation calls for minions, I send them out in either 1 or 2 waves. Trust me, I have a Radiant Servant cleric in my party. Encounter power Solar Wrath. Burst 8, her Wisdom vs Will. Hits everything.

Sending them out in waves only works a few times. After that my cleric learned to just hold on for a little bit. She now reserves it until a few rounds in to make sure she's getting everyone... by that time a lot of the minions are already gone but I've gotten to use them as well.