Quantity in Combat

[Stalker0]

The Mob rules in the DMGII allow ~60 medium or 12 large creatures to become a "Mob" 
with 30 HD. It functions like a swarm, doing 5d6 damage and causing distrataction to any creature that occupies its area (20x20)
Each mob is a CR 8

That also negates cleave, greatcleave and whirlwind. Area attacks that should decimate those grouping of creatures now do only semi noticeable damage against 30 HD worth of hit points. It is like the angry mob became an angry blob.

If you saw the episode of Drawn Together where the sweat shop workers fuse together into a giant monster, you’ve got an idea how DMG2 mobs work.



If you are short on minis, you can print up formations.

That's why in my game, cleave grants you +25% damage to mobs, great cleave +100%. I never considered WWA because it never appeared in my game, I'd probably give it +50%

 

[frankthedm]

If one goes minion heavy in 4E, mini suppies will definity wear thin.

Frank, special thanks for the printables.

You're welcome. I've gotten to doing a bunch more of recent. I'll probably do a few more this week.



Keep on the shadowfell units

 

[Folly]

For a source for mass combat in 3.5, there is the Mini's Handbook. (and I mean rules for the table top game and not the Mini's game)

 

[Corsair]

For a source for mass combat in 3.5, there is the Mini's Handbook. (and I mean rules for the table top game and not the Mini's game)

That was an oddly conceived book. It has a lot of solid crunch in it (though I still dislike the split casting stat for favored souls), much of which has seen reprints in later books. Unfortunately neither community (minis players or RPG players) liked it because for opposite reasons.

 

[Folly]

Yep, and I cant agree more that the split casting stat was a really bad idea. I wish they went more the route that Warmages did. Since they already give FS the fighter feats I would think a bonus to melee/range hit or damage would make sense, and make it worthwhile to invest into wisdom for certain builds.

 

[Corsair]

The problem is someone over at WotC is really convinced that spontaneous casting is super duper awesome. I can see no other reason why the sorcerer, favored soul, and spirit shaman are so terrible compared to their counterparts.

 

[roguerouge]

One thing I don't understand is how the fighter is going to survive round one in combat with an ordinary human mob. The mob has a grapple check of +32.

Round one: grapple. Win. Move into space.
Round two: win opposed grapple to damage opponent. Do 5d6 damage.

Is there any way for a spell-less melee combatant to counter this?

 

[Kmart Kommando]

One thing I don't understand is how the fighter is going to survive round one in combat with an ordinary human mob. The mob has a grapple check of +32.

Round one: grapple. Win. Move into space.
Round two: win opposed grapple to damage opponent. Do 5d6 damage.

Is there any way for a spell-less melee combatant to counter this?

Ask anyone who wasn't alive at the end of a zombie movie.

Unless you're Jet LI, and flying on wires, you're not going to beat a whole mob by yourself. The only thing you can do is try to stay away from them.

Really, though, in game terms, if you're surrounded by a Mob, and you and the mob's component creatures are medium, you'd probably have, at most, 9 sets of hands trying to bring you down. One in your square and 8 more surrounding you. If You're a buffed-up melee combatant, and way overclassing the creatures in the mob, I still don't see how they could bring you down. Is this reflected in the Mob template? I haven't seen it lately.

 

[frankthedm]

Ask anyone who wasn't alive at the end of a zombie movie.

Heroic High Fantasy probably should not operate by the same rules as survival horror.

Unless you're Jet LI, and flying on wires, you're not going to beat a whole mob by yourself.

That’s exactly who D&D characters are supposed to be like. Feats like Great cleave and Whirlwind attack are specifically for defeating hordes of lesser foes.

Really, though, in game terms, if you're surrounded by a Mob, and you and the mob's component creatures are medium, you'd probably have, at most, 9 sets of hands trying to bring you down. One in your square and 8 more surrounding you.

Only if the mob member are really fat. The D20 system seems to allow for allows for 5 folks to be grappling in one square, see multiple Grapplers. And since there are 60 medium critters in one mob, 3 mob-ites to a square sounds about right meaning 24 sets of enemy hands are playing grab-ass.

If You're a buffed-up melee combatant, and way overclassing the creatures in the mob, I still don't see how they could bring you down. Is this reflected in the Mob template? I haven't seen it lately.

The Mob Template makes the group a 30 HD, gargantuan, trampling, engulfing blob. It takes 50% more damage from area effects, but that’s no consolation to the fighter who has had his armor, shield, Cleave, Great cleave and Whirlwind attack negated since it is now counted as one creature that deals auto-damage.

One thing I don't understand is how the fighter is going to survive round one in combat with an ordinary human mob. The mob has a grapple check of +32.

Round one: grapple. Win. Move into space.
Round two: win opposed grapple to damage opponent. Do 5d6 damage.

Is there any way for a spell-less melee combatant to counter this?

Running away.

 

[frankthedm]

Oh yeah, mobs of undead are also pretty much immune to tuningdue to having 30 HD. That said, even if one uses minis, prited counters DO work well for mobs since players are going to be standing in the mobs.