Quarterstaff and buckler questions

[Vorpal Jack]

hi,

i'm planning to play a cleric of Fharlarghn and want to take a quarterstaff as my melee weapon. i hate giving up the shield slot as a place to hang magic vestments off of, so i'm thinking of using a buckler. i'm currently planning to imbue the offhand head of the staff with defending and not attack with it, since i won't have ambi/2wf for a few levels. my dm and i aren't sure how to handle it because there are multiple ways you can treat the quarterstaff. i did some searching, but didn't find answers. if it's in a faq, please post a link to it. these are the front-runners as we see them:

1) it's a two handed weapon that can have an extra attack. both the regular attacks and the extra attack would get the 2 handed 1.5 strength bonus. if you use the extra attack, 2wf penalties apply. the buckler penalty applies to all attacks and if you attack at all, the buckler doesn't add its ac.

2) it can be used as a 2 handed weapon or a pair of 1-handed weapons. if you use it 2-handed, you get the 1.5 str bonus and don't get the extra attack or the buckler ac. if you use it as a pair of 1-handed weapons, you don't get the str bonus, and the main hand avoids any buckler penalty. the offhand would get the buckler penalty. if the offhand is not used, the buckler's ac applies.


there are other variations, but these are the main two we can picture.

i think i have the dm convinced to do a "buckler expert" feat that's similar to shield expert so i can attack and still get the buckler benefit.

i'd appreciate any pointers y'all have.

btw, i plan to mostly use a bow, but switch to the quarterstaff if someone closes with me.

-vj

 

[Hypersmurf]

2) it can be used as a 2 handed weapon or a pair of 1-handed weapons. if you use it 2-handed, you get the 1.5 str bonus and don't get the extra attack or the buckler ac. if you use it as a pair of 1-handed weapons, you don't get the str bonus, and the main hand avoids any buckler penalty. the offhand would get the buckler penalty. if the offhand is not used, the buckler's ac applies.

That's the one.

Note that if you want to gain any benefit from the Defending head, you need to use an attack action with it.

That's not the same as actually having to make an attack roll... but if you want to hit with one head and get the Defending benefit from the other, then you a/ need a Full Attack action, b/ take TWF penalties on your attacks, and c/ only get x1 Str bonus, not x1.5.

If you want to move, attack, and get the Defending bonus in the same round, then your attack must be with the Defending head.

-Hyp.

 

[Sejs]

your options would be:

A) Attack with the quarterstaff as a 2 handed weapon, gaining no additional attacks, no buckler AC bonus, and 1.5x your strength modifier to damage.

B) Attack with the quarterstaff as a 1 handed weapon, gaining no additional attacks, +1 to Ac from the buckler, and 1x your strength modifier to damage.

C) Attack with the quarterstaff as a double-weapon, gaining 1 additional attack with the other end of the weapon, which suffers a -1 penality to hit due to the buckler being on your off hand, you gain no bonus to Ac from the buckler as you are attacking with that hand. Your primary hand uses 1x your strength modifier to damage, and your off hand uses 0.5x your strength modifier to damage.


As for the Defending off-head idea: Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty that you have to attack with a defending weapon to gain any of the AC bonus that would otherwise be used to hit/damage. So unless you're swinging that off-hand end of the weapon you wouldn't gain anything for it being defending.

 

[Hypersmurf]

As for the Defending off-head idea: Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty that you have to attack with a defending weapon to gain any of the AC bonus that would otherwise be used to hit/damage. So unless you're swinging that off-hand end of the weapon you wouldn't gain anything for it being defending. [/B]

It's like Expertise or Fighting Defensively.

You have to take the attack action, but you don't actually have to try and hit anyone if you don't want to.

It still counts as "fighting with two weapons" if you attack with one and Defend with the other, even if you don't swing the Defending end.

-Hyp.

 

[Christian]

Sejs, option B is not available. The quarterstaff is size Large-a size Medium PC cannot use it one-handed any more than he could use a greatsword one-handed.

 

[drnuncheon]

Sejs, option B is not available. The quarterstaff is size Large-a size Medium PC cannot use it one-handed any more than he could use a greatsword one-handed.

Unless he uses Monkey Grip from Sword & Fist, right.

Basically, if you want to use a two-handed weapon in two hands, you're not going to get the benefits of the buckler at all, no matter whether you're attacking with one head or two - it's still a size L weapon, it still requires two hands to use.

Hyp's right about the defending, too. If you're using only the other end of the quarterstaff, then the 'defending' head doesn't give you any bonus to AC - just as if it were any other unused defending weapon. If you want to get the benefits of using two weapons at once, you have to pay the penalties.

If you want to use a buckler for your magic vestment, I suggest that you get yourself a club (and call it a walking stick).

J

 

[Sejs]

Cool, thank you for the correction on the option B thing, and for confirmation on the defending thing.

 

[Steverooo]

The Buckler...

By level two, you can afford a Masterwork Buckler. This will drop the Armor Check Penalty to zero! By level three or so, you can afford to get it enchanted.

By the Bayou, I'd reccommend Spiked Gauntlets or Bladed Bracers for use with your bow... TWF, can't be disarmed, and you always threaten an area. Best of all, no switching/drawing weapons!

Bladed Bracers are from FRCS, I believe...

 

[Hypersmurf]

Re: The Buckler...

By the Bayou, I'd reccommend Spiked Gauntlets or Bladed Bracers for use with your bow... TWF, can't be disarmed, and you always threaten an area. Best of all, no switching/drawing weapons!

Close, but not quite.

According to the latest FAQ update, you do need to "switch" between bow and gauntlets. It's a free action, but you need to say you're doing it during your turn.

With a bow, it's no big deal except for a level 6+ OotBI, who has to decide at the end of his turn whether he wants to be able to threaten 5' with his gauntlets, or make use of the "Free Attack" class feature with his bow.

With a longspear, it is a big deal - the user has to decide if he wants to threaten 5' with his gauntlets, or 10' with his spear, but can't do both. If you choose to keep your spear ready, and the bard tumbles up to you and casts a spell, you can't punch him. If you choose to hold your spear loosely in one hand so you can threaten with your gauntlet, and the barbarian charges you, you don't get an AoO with the spear as he passes through its threat zone.

-Hyp.