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<blockquote data-quote="Kithas" data-source="post: 6868504" data-attributes="member: 97587"><p>Rangers don't have access to gwf.</p><p>Aside from that I take issue with how mearls and crawford are treating improvised weapons. They are saying that they are a weapon when you want them to be(twf, dueling, booming blade) and not a weapon when you don't want them to be(Dueling, +2ac). Generally any rule that lets you have your cake and eat it too is not good balance wise, there is no cost to choosing it.</p><p>Here's the breakdown (level6 16 str)</p><p>Longsword and shield dueling fighting style</p><p>2*(1d8+5)=19</p><p>Polearm Master(gwf)</p><p>2*(1d10+3)+(1d4+3)=23.5</p><p>Dual wielding Longswords(twf)</p><p>3*(1d8+3)=22.5</p><p>Greatsword(gwf)</p><p>2*(2d6+3)=22</p><p>---</p><p>Longsword and Shield(twf)</p><p>2*(1d8+3)+(1d4+3)=20.5</p><p>Longsword and Shield(twf <strong>and</strong> Dueling)</p><p>2*(1d8+5)+(1d4+3)=<strong>24.5</strong></p><p></p><p>Dual Shields(twf)</p><p>3*(1d4+3)=16.5</p><p>Dual Shields(Dueling)</p><p>2*(1d4+5)+(1d4+2)=19.5</p><p>Dual Shields(Dueling <strong>and</strong> twf)</p><p>3*(1d4+5)=<strong>22.5</strong></p><p></p><p>As you can see because you get to choose when the shields count as weapons you can actually use two weapon fighting <strong>and</strong> Dueling. Obviously these were not intended to be used together but this interpretation allows for this. In the examples the twf version of the longsword/shield(with or without dueling) and the final 2 versions of double shield are easily on par if not higher(twf+dueling ls+shield was highest) in damage and much better in ac than any other option available. If I had to pick solely on the numbers and didn't know what weapons they were I would always pick the two clubs that give me a +5ac total and a free +1shield strapped to a club that only counts as a weapon when I want it to. Two feats is a very small price to pay for this kind of thing.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Kithas, post: 6868504, member: 97587"] Rangers don't have access to gwf. Aside from that I take issue with how mearls and crawford are treating improvised weapons. They are saying that they are a weapon when you want them to be(twf, dueling, booming blade) and not a weapon when you don't want them to be(Dueling, +2ac). Generally any rule that lets you have your cake and eat it too is not good balance wise, there is no cost to choosing it. Here's the breakdown (level6 16 str) Longsword and shield dueling fighting style 2*(1d8+5)=19 Polearm Master(gwf) 2*(1d10+3)+(1d4+3)=23.5 Dual wielding Longswords(twf) 3*(1d8+3)=22.5 Greatsword(gwf) 2*(2d6+3)=22 --- Longsword and Shield(twf) 2*(1d8+3)+(1d4+3)=20.5 Longsword and Shield(twf [B]and[/B] Dueling) 2*(1d8+5)+(1d4+3)=[B]24.5[/B] Dual Shields(twf) 3*(1d4+3)=16.5 Dual Shields(Dueling) 2*(1d4+5)+(1d4+2)=19.5 Dual Shields(Dueling [B]and[/B] twf) 3*(1d4+5)=[B]22.5[/B] As you can see because you get to choose when the shields count as weapons you can actually use two weapon fighting [B]and[/B] Dueling. Obviously these were not intended to be used together but this interpretation allows for this. In the examples the twf version of the longsword/shield(with or without dueling) and the final 2 versions of double shield are easily on par if not higher(twf+dueling ls+shield was highest) in damage and much better in ac than any other option available. If I had to pick solely on the numbers and didn't know what weapons they were I would always pick the two clubs that give me a +5ac total and a free +1shield strapped to a club that only counts as a weapon when I want it to. Two feats is a very small price to pay for this kind of thing. [/QUOTE]
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