Question about "Minimum # of Spells / Level"

[DM_Wannabe]

I'm struggling with (what I think should be) a very basic concept.

On p.10 of the PHB, the "INTELLIGENCE TABLE II:ABILITY FOR MAGIC-USERS" identifies the third column as "Minimum Number of Spells/Level".

I understand the concept of maximum # of spells per level. Based on the intelligence score of the MU, the character has a finite number of spells that can "fit" into their repertoire.

But the minimum # of spells/level perplexes me. Especially when I read page 39 of the DMG that says first level MUs should start out with 4 spells in their spell book. What of the MU with an intelligence of 16, and according to the table in the PHB has a minimum # of spells/level of 7.

In my mind, there should be no table that assigns a minimum number of spells because the minimum # would always be zero, no matter what the intelligence of the MU. The reason I say zero, is that there may exist some extenuating circumstances that limit the # of spells a MU knows.

What if the MU's teacher feels the student is not yet ready to handle the mental rigors of casting, therefore withholds the information from the MU?

What if the MU is simply lazy and doesn't study enough to know 7 spells?

What if the teacher died before he could teach 7 spells?

Obviously, I'm obsessing over minutia, but I want to understand the concept that Gary was trying to convey with this table.

Any thoughts?

 

[S'mon]

I encountered this running a 1e BTB campaign recently.

The idea seems to be that if the M-U has rolled d% to know every spell of that level in the PHB and not learnt the minimum number, he can start rolling all over again. In practical terms this is unlikely to ever happen though, not least because the M-U is unlikely ever to have access to EVERY spell.

My recommendation would be that you use the DMG system for starting spells, the Know Spell % roll for acquiring spells beyond start (eg on levelling, or from scrolls etc), and the mininum number can probably be ignored.

 

[the Jester]

The idea seems to be that if the M-U has rolled d% to know every spell of that level in the PHB and not learnt the minimum number, he can start rolling all over again.

This is correct. Basically, even an Int 9 wizard won't ever get stuck failing to learn every 2nd level spell except for magic mouth.

 

[DM_Wannabe]

Thanks for the feedback. The fact that two sources have corroborated the theory behind the min. # of spells/level make me feel rather confident that the hypothesis is accurate.

 

[Libramarian]

Yup, that's correct. In case you're missing this part, if an MU fails their % know spell roll, they can never learn that spell for the whole campaign. So if you botch that roll for Fireball, no Fireball ever.

(Unless you're on a hardcore BtB kick, I would recommend not keeping track of which spells the MU has failed to learn, and just allowing them to roll again if they come across a different copy of the spell.)

 

[DM_Wannabe]

I'm sure I'll develop some house rule regarding this aspect of spell acquisition. I just wanted to make sure I understood the underlying principal before I started making changes to it.

Thanks!

 

[wolfattack]

Well, i understood the description of the table in a different way. i guess what Gygax wanted to mean with ''minimum number of spells / level'' is that the MU will understood that specific spell if he ever find it. there are certain aspects of magic that the MU will never understood or be able to perform no matter what. so a Level 1 MU with a intelligence of 17, for example, can understand 8 specific spells of level 1 if he ever get his eyes on them, but he only knows 4 on his spell book at the start of the campaign (as stated in the DMG).
[h=2][/h]

 

[DM_Wannabe]

Well, i understood the description of the table in a different way. i guess what Gygax wanted to mean with ''minimum number of spells / level'' is that the MU will understood that specific spell if he ever find it. there are certain aspects of magic that the MU will never understood or be able to perform no matter what. so a Level 1 MU with a intelligence of 17, for example, can understand 8 specific spells of level 1 if he ever get his eyes on them, but he only knows 4 on his spell book at the start of the campaign (as stated in the DMG).

After reviewing this paragraph in the PHB on page 10, I must agree with the earlier interpretations of the "minimum # of spells/level."

Minimum Number of Spells/Level states the fewest number of spells by
level group a magic-user can learn. If one complete check through the
entire group fails to generate the minimum number applicable according
to intelligence score, the character may selectively go back through the
group, checking each spell not able to be learned once again. This process
continues until the minimum number requirement has been fulfilled. This
means, then, that certain spells, when located, can be learned - while
certain other spells can never be learned and the dice rolls indicate which
ones are in each category. Example: The magic-user mentioned above
who was unable to learn a charm person spell also fails to meet the
minimum number of spells he or she can learn. The character then begins
again on the list of 1st level spells, opts to see if this time charm person is
able to be learned, rolls 04, and has acquired the ability to learn the spell.
If and when the character locates such a spell, he or she will be capable of
learning it.

So the minimum # of spells/level is simply there to prevent a poor unfortunate soul from having such terrible luck on their "chance to know" rolls that they would otherwise end up with a number of spells for that particular level much too low when considering their intelligence.

You're absolutely right that the MU gets 4 spells in his/her spell book to start off. Let's consider the example you used in your response of the MU with a 17 intelligence score. If I understand the "rules as written" correctly, the player would hand pick the spells that he wanted to know one at a time, making percentile rolls for each of the 30 1st level MU spells listed in the PHB, having a 75% chance to know each one. The player would stop once he successfully knew the maximum number of 14 first level spells. If the percentile rolls did not result in the PC knowing at least 8 spells after going through the entire list of first level spells, the player could then go back and pick spells that formerly resulted in unsuccessful percentile rolls and roll once again until the character had at least 8 spells known. Of course, the PC still only has four spells in his spell book. The "known" spells are the only other spells that can be added to the character's spell repertoire through the acquisition of scrolls, or other means. The same process would then be repeated for second level spells once the PC reached the 3rd level.

Someone please verify that I understand this correctly now.

 

[Libramarian]

I'm sure I'll develop some house rule regarding this aspect of spell acquisition. I just wanted to make sure I understood the underlying principal before I started making changes to it.

Thanks!

Quite reasonable.

 

[grodog]

Someone please verify that I understand this correctly now.

Yes, you are grokkiing the rules properly.

FWIW, I don't use the "roll all of the spells you'll ever know upon character creation" method, since I think it's a waste of time, and can also be somewhat disheartening if you know at level 1 that your PC will never have a chance to cast your favorite spell. Further, if your PC hasn't ever run across the charm person spell yet, I don't see any value as a DM in making you roll to see if you can learn it. So, I use the chance to know spell as S'mon mentioned above. (And all starting MUs have a 100% chance to know their starting spells from the DMG on page 39).

I also allow MUs to re-roll their chance to know a spell if their Int goes up, as well as when they gain a new level as part of their training (but new spells gained when they gain new levels may not necessarily be known: despite adding Web to your spellbook as a new Conjurer, if your PCs fail the chance to know roll he can't cast Web or any other 2nd level spells until you find some more and successfully learn them, or gain a new level or your Int goes up....).