Question about Reflex saves

[morbiczer]

Hi all!

Are there any conditions that make you to automatically fail yor Reflex saving throw? It would sound logical that if you are for example paralyzed, then you fail your Reflex saving throw automatically, since you can't move out of harms way.

I tried to look through my PHB, but didn't find anything relevant (which would mean that you can succeed at a Reflex saving throw even if you are paralyzed). Any opinions? Did I miss something?

 

[Kershek]

Hi all!

Are there any conditions that make you to automatically fail yor Reflex saving throw? It would sound logical that if you are for example paralyzed, then you fail your Reflex saving throw automatically, since you can't move out of harms way.

I tried to look through my PHB, but didn't find anything relevant (which would mean that you can succeed at a Reflex saving throw even if you are paralyzed). Any opinions? Did I miss something?

P.17 of the D&D FAQ answers your question:

Exactly when can a character make a Reflex saving throw?

The saving throw section on the​

Player’s Handbook says
​

Reflex saves depend on a character’s ability to dodge out of
​

the way. Does that mean you can’t make Reflex saves if you
​

can’t move?
​

A character can attempt a Reflex save anytime she is
​

subjected to an effect that allows a Reflex save. A Reflex save
​

usually involves some dodging, but a Reflex save is not
​

completely dependent on a character’s ability to move around.
​

It also can depend on luck, variations in the effect that makes
​

the save necessary in the first place, and a host of other
​

miraculous factors that keep heroic characters in the D&D
​

game from meeting an untimely fate.
​

In most cases, you make Reflex saves normally, no matter
​

how bad your circumstances are, but there are a few conditions
​

that interfere with Reflex saves:
​

•​

If you’ve suffered Dexterity damage or Dexterity
​

drain, you must use your current, lower Dexterity
​

modifier for your Reflex saves.
​

•​

If you’re cowering, you lose your Dexterity bonus (if
​

any). The maximum Dexterity bonus you can have
​

while cowering is +0, and that affects your Reflex
​

saves accordingly.
​

•​

If you’re dead, you become an object. Unattended
​

objects can’t make saving throws.
​

•​

If you’re entangled, your effective Dexterity score
​

drops by –4, and you must use your lower Dexterity
​

modifier for Reflex saves.
​

•​

If you’re exhausted, your effective Strength and
​

Dexterity scores drop by –6, and you must use your
​

lower Dexterity modifier for Reflex saves.
​

•​

If you’re fatigued, your effective Strength and
​

Dexterity scores drop by –2, and you must use your
​

lower Dexterity modifier for Reflex saves.
​

•​

If you’re frightened or panicked, you have a –2
​

penalty on all saving throws, including Reflex saving
​

throws.
​

•​

If you’re helpless, your Dexterity score is effectively
​

0. You still can make Reflex saves, but your
​

Dexterity modifier is –5. You’re helpless whenever
​

you are paralyzed, unconscious, or asleep.​

​

 

[argo]

Most situations where it would "seem logical" that the character automatically fail a Ref save the character is probably also Helpless (paralyzed, unconscious, held: any condition where you could perform a coup de gras) and a Helpless character has an effectve Dex of 0; meaning that he not only looses any positive Dex bonus he may have had but takes a -5 penalty for the ultra-low Dex. That should probably be a sufficent penalty to fail most Ref saves appropriate to the character's level.


Of course you can also always Rule 0 it to be a failure, but you should be carefull with that sort of thing.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Check the description of Evasion in the DMG.

"As with a Reflex save for any creature, a character must have room to move in order to evade. A bound character or one squeezing through an area cannot use evasion."

No room to move? No Reflex save.

Now you just need to decide: "Does someone who is incapable of movement have 'room to move', even if they are in an open space?"

I'd say no. It doesn't matter how much open space there is around a paralyzed creature, it is not sufficient room to allow them to move; therefore they do not have 'room to move', and cannot use Evasion... as with a Reflex save for any creature.

-Hyp.

 

[Li Shenron]

Check the description of Evasion in the DMG.

"As with a Reflex save for any creature, a character must have room to move in order to evade. A bound character or one squeezing through an area cannot use evasion."

No room to move? No Reflex save.

Now you just need to decide: "Does someone who is incapable of movement have 'room to move', even if they are in an open space?"

I'd say no. It doesn't matter how much open space there is around a paralyzed creature, it is not sufficient room to allow them to move; therefore they do not have 'room to move', and cannot use Evasion... as with a Reflex save for any creature.

-Hyp.

I would not be so black & white, I could give a paralyzed creature behind cover get a reflex save, for example.