Question about shapable spells.

[Eraslin]

Hi there,
I've a quick question that I suspect I already know the answer to, but I just want to get other opinions on. If a spell is shapable does its area of effect need to be contiguous? If not, then if one of the disjoint areas of the spell has a dispell cast upon it does that dispell affect the other disjoint areas?

Here's the 3.5 SRD text regarding Shapable:

(S) Shapeable: If an Area or Effect entry ends with “(S),” you can shape the spell. A shaped effect or area can have no dimension smaller than 10 feet. Many effects or areas are given as cubes to make it easy to model irregular shapes. Three-dimensional volumes are most often needed to define aerial or underwater effects and areas.

Thanks,
Eraslin

 

[Eraslin]

A little bump...

 

[Altamont Ravenard]

Instinctively, I'd say "contiguous", although I can't find a definite quote.

Nevertheless, spells that create an effect that can be placed somewhere usually mention if an effect must be continuous and unbroken (Wall of Force, for example)... Does that mean that when it is not mentioned, there is no such requirement?

AR

 

[Mephistopheles]

I would also say the area must be contiguous although I can't find any reference to support that position.

 

[Li Shenron]

I agree with the other two... it should be "shapeable" but not "splittable"

 

[cordell]

I'm fairly new here...

I agree with the others. It just seems intuitive to me that the caster can't split up the area.

If you want something more "rules-like", then, my thinking is, if you "split" the spell up, then there would be a dimension of less than 10 feet...it would be 0 feet!

 

[Eraslin]

Thanks all. That's pretty much what I was thinking. Though, my reason for thinking that it has to be contiguous is that if not it makes the second question very interesting/sketchy. If the areas are disjoint, would they be treated like different spells for the purpose of dispel magic? For example, if you dispel someone's haste the remainder of the targets of the haste still keep theirs -- or do they?

-Eraslin

 

[Altamont Ravenard]

I would think that they do. The spell affects each target with an individual effect (IMO).

Let's say 2 characters are targetted by a Haste spell. They need to be a maximum of 30 feet apart. After the spell is cast, they don't need to stay within 30 feet of each other in order for the Haste spell to stay in effect. That's why I would say that dispelling one Haste effect won't affect the other.

AR

 

[Rel]

I asked this very same question some time ago and the answer was not absolutely clear at that time either. However I can say definitively that allowing the area to be split came off as brokenly powerful.

The player in question was running a mid level Wizard and with a Rod of Shaping he was dropping Lightning Substituted cubes of Fireball all over the battlefield hitting multiple targets that were spread far apart. It was rapidly getting to the point where the other players felt that they were just keeping the enemies busy until the Wizard got around to "Lightning Cubing" everybody.

I eventually ruled that the area had to be "touching", such that the cubes could be arranged corner to corner but must otherwise be contiguous. I recommend that you allow no interpretation more liberal than that.

 

[Eraslin]

I asked this very same question some time ago and the answer was not absolutely clear at that time either. However I can say definitively that allowing the area to be split came off as brokenly powerful.

The player in question was running a mid level Wizard and with a Rod of Shaping he was dropping Lightning Substituted cubes of Fireball all over the battlefield hitting multiple targets that were spread far apart. It was rapidly getting to the point where the other players felt that they were just keeping the enemies busy until the Wizard got around to "Lightning Cubing" everybody.

I eventually ruled that the area had to be "touching", such that the cubes could be arranged corner to corner but must otherwise be contiguous. I recommend that you allow no interpretation more liberal than that.

I know exactly what you mean. My character actually got to use Reverse Gravity for the first time in my gaming life this past weekend. At the time we allowed the affected area to be disjoint (at the time we also didn't know about the 10' minimum dimension). So, my wizard popped a bunch of 5'x5'x15' columns of reversed gravity all over the battlefield. The result was comic, but it left a bad taste in my mouth that we may have used the spell incorrectly. I ended up effectively removing some of the more potent enemies from the battle for a good long while (they were spread out) -- I also removed a bunch of pain in the butt mooks...

-Eraslin