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question about spell immunity
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<blockquote data-quote="moritheil" data-source="post: 2462717" data-attributes="member: 30610"><p><em>Should</em> it be in line with Globe of Invulnerability? The two are completely different spells.</p><p></p><p>There are, as previous posters have pointed out, two ways to view this: </p><p></p><p>One, that Spell Immunity has a limit to its power which is embodied in the "4th level or lower" statement. Casting the chosen spell at a higher level of power (heightened) therefore overcomes Spell Immunity.</p><p></p><p>Two, that Spell Immunity has a limit to its power which only makes it effective against spells <em>designed</em> within certain bounds (which says nothing of their execution, so it doesn't matter what spell level the spell is cast at.) That is, Spell Immunity protects you from a specified spell, and the list of spells you can choose happens to be the list of spells that are, in their unaltered states, considered 4th level and below somewhere in the spell lists. When you cast Fireball prepared with Delay Metamagic, you aren't casting the same spell as Delayed Blast Fireball - you're casting Fireball. As such, the spell itself is Fireball. In this view, it's in that lower level list of spells, regardless of what you personally happen to be doing with it.</p><p></p><p>The former interpretation leads to your conclusion. The latter interpretation leads to Thanee's conclusion.</p><p></p><p>There is, additionally, one more issue to note, touched upon in the question: Are Druid Flame Strike and Cleric Flame Strike the same spell? I would say yes, but some people would say no, by virtue of the fact that it takes up different slots and that different classes are casting it. Furthermore, some people would say that a bard and a cleric Sound Burst are different (one is arcane, the other divine.) </p><p></p><p>In a sense, there's nothing conceptually wrong with making those statements. However, if you do that, Spell Immunity is pretty much worthless. You won't even need to heighten a spell beyond 4th level to mess with Spell Immunity. You want to be immune to magic missile? Oh, the sorcerer version or the wizard version? I can argue that one is prepared and the other not, so there must be some differences, right? The wizard, you say? Hey, look, it's a Silent Magic missile cast by a wizard! It takes up a different spell slot, and isn't exactly the first-level wizard spell "Magic Missile" that you named! Instead, it's a subtly different second-level Magic Missile! Sucks to be you!</p><p></p><p>Personally, I think Spell Immunity is a rather weak spell, and as such, it needs all the help it can get. Additional restrictions make an already weak spell outright pathetic.</p><p></p><p>But hey, call it however you like it.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>PS: Just to set things straight:</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I don't want to sound too harsh, but it's pretty obvious that you don't play a caster. One, SR is a target number to beat with a level check. This determines whether your spell has any effect at all. It is not remotely similar to DR, which subtracts damage from a physical attack. Two, SR in 3.x is not a percentage - that's 2.0 MR, which was independent of the caster and entirely dependent on the victim, barring special spells that lowered MR and the like. Three, Spell Immunity is described as "unbeatable spell resistance." You do not "overcome" it, or it wouldn't be called "Immunity." There's a separate and more generic spell called Spell Resistance that confers SR (which can be overcome.)</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="moritheil, post: 2462717, member: 30610"] [i]Should[/i] it be in line with Globe of Invulnerability? The two are completely different spells. There are, as previous posters have pointed out, two ways to view this: One, that Spell Immunity has a limit to its power which is embodied in the "4th level or lower" statement. Casting the chosen spell at a higher level of power (heightened) therefore overcomes Spell Immunity. Two, that Spell Immunity has a limit to its power which only makes it effective against spells [i]designed[/i] within certain bounds (which says nothing of their execution, so it doesn't matter what spell level the spell is cast at.) That is, Spell Immunity protects you from a specified spell, and the list of spells you can choose happens to be the list of spells that are, in their unaltered states, considered 4th level and below somewhere in the spell lists. When you cast Fireball prepared with Delay Metamagic, you aren't casting the same spell as Delayed Blast Fireball - you're casting Fireball. As such, the spell itself is Fireball. In this view, it's in that lower level list of spells, regardless of what you personally happen to be doing with it. The former interpretation leads to your conclusion. The latter interpretation leads to Thanee's conclusion. There is, additionally, one more issue to note, touched upon in the question: Are Druid Flame Strike and Cleric Flame Strike the same spell? I would say yes, but some people would say no, by virtue of the fact that it takes up different slots and that different classes are casting it. Furthermore, some people would say that a bard and a cleric Sound Burst are different (one is arcane, the other divine.) In a sense, there's nothing conceptually wrong with making those statements. However, if you do that, Spell Immunity is pretty much worthless. You won't even need to heighten a spell beyond 4th level to mess with Spell Immunity. You want to be immune to magic missile? Oh, the sorcerer version or the wizard version? I can argue that one is prepared and the other not, so there must be some differences, right? The wizard, you say? Hey, look, it's a Silent Magic missile cast by a wizard! It takes up a different spell slot, and isn't exactly the first-level wizard spell "Magic Missile" that you named! Instead, it's a subtly different second-level Magic Missile! Sucks to be you! Personally, I think Spell Immunity is a rather weak spell, and as such, it needs all the help it can get. Additional restrictions make an already weak spell outright pathetic. But hey, call it however you like it. PS: Just to set things straight: I don't want to sound too harsh, but it's pretty obvious that you don't play a caster. One, SR is a target number to beat with a level check. This determines whether your spell has any effect at all. It is not remotely similar to DR, which subtracts damage from a physical attack. Two, SR in 3.x is not a percentage - that's 2.0 MR, which was independent of the caster and entirely dependent on the victim, barring special spells that lowered MR and the like. Three, Spell Immunity is described as "unbeatable spell resistance." You do not "overcome" it, or it wouldn't be called "Immunity." There's a separate and more generic spell called Spell Resistance that confers SR (which can be overcome.) [/QUOTE]
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