question about spell immunity

[Shariell]

Can the clerical spell "spell immunity" protect me from an (for example) heightened (to 5° level) charme? (formerly 1st level spell).

If I choose a specified spell to be immune to, the heightened level is relevant to bypass my protection?

PS. sorry for my English, this is not my first language.

 

[Thanee]

I could see it both ways, really.

You have to choose a particular spell, which is of 4th level or lower in the spell list, or you are immune to a particular spell, which has to be 4th level or lower (when it is cast).

I would tend towards the first interpretation, i.e. Heighten Spell does not help to beat Spell Immunity.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Shariell]

thanks a lot for your precious help Thanee

 

[Lord Pendragon]

I would tend towards the first interpretation, i.e. Heighten Spell does not help to beat Spell Immunity.

I thought this at first glance, but looking over the spell and thinking on it further, I think a Heightened spell does beat Spell Immunity.

Consider first of all the issue of Flame Strike. Cast by a druid (4th-level spell) it's blocked by Spell Immunity...but cast by a cleric (5th-level spell)? I'd rule that cast by a cleric, it got through. (Precedent set by Globe of Invulnerability, which states: )

If a given spell has more than one level depending on which character class is casting it, use the level appropriate to the caster to determine whether lesser globe of invulnerability stops it.

Then consider the text from Heighten Spell (emphasis mine):

HEIGHTEN SPELL [METAMAGIC]
Benefit: A heightened spell has a higher spell level than normal (up to a maximum of 9th level). Unlike other metamagic feats, Heighten Spell actually increases the effective level of the spell that it modifies. All effects dependent on spell level (such as saving throw DCs and ability to penetrate a lesser globe of invulnerability) are calculated according to the heightened level. The heightened spell is as difficult to prepare and cast as a spell of its effective level.

Heighten Spell does more than just raise the DCs of a spell. The spell is now effectively a higher-level spell. A Fireball heightened to 4th-level punches through a Lesser Globe of Invulnerability, and a Fireball heightened to 5th-level ignores Spell Immunity.

 

[Thanee]

Yep, the difference I see there is, that with Spell Immunity you name one particular spell (which has to be of a certain level...). It's not a general 'all spells of Xth level' as with the Globes, for example. That means (to me, anyways), that the level is not of primary importance, but the spell name is. The spell level is more of a guideline of a spell's overall power level there (the same power level, which leads to adjudicating at what level the spell becomes available).

But as I said, I can definitely see it work both ways.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Lord Pendragon]

Yep, the difference I see there is, that with Spell Immunity you name one particular spell (which has to be of a certain level...). It's not a general 'all spells of Xth level' as with the Globes, for example. That means (to me, anyways), that the level is not of primary importance, but the spell name is. The spell level is more of a guideline of a spell's overall power level there (the same power level, which leads to adjudicating at what level the spell becomes available).

Then if I select Flame Strike to be immune to, what happens? Does the spell block a cleric's 5th-level casting, even though that spell is an invalid target for Spell Immunity (it falls outside of the "overall power guidelines" as you describe it)? Or does Spell Immunity itself fail at the time of casting, since I've tried to select an invalid spell, even though it should block a druid's casting?

Like the lesser globe, it seems more likely to me that the spell's "shield" is effective against only up to 4th-level spells. Not 9th-level versions of 4th-level spells, etc. A Heightened spell, or a higher level version of the spell on another spell list, trumps it.

 

[Thanee]

Since Flame Strike is (available as) a 4th level or lower spell, you would be immune to it then.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Lord Pendragon]

Since Flame Strike is (available as) a 4th level or lower spell, you would be immune to it then.

Well, suffice it to say I rule it differently. I don't see how a cleric's 5th-level Flame Strike is a valid spell to be blocked by Spell Immunity when it (IMO) very clearly states it only works on spells of 4th-level or lower.

But I don't really have any other evidence aside from what I've already put forth, so I guess we agree to disagree.

 

[Centaur]

I would have to aggree with the interpretation of Lord Pendragon. If the level of the spell was indeed heightend above the basic ability of spell immunity's abilitiy to protect, then it should affect the target.

Heigthen Spell is after all specificaly designed as a way to make lower level spells usefull at higher levels simply by putting more power behind them.

 

[Thanee]

Well, suffice it to say I rule it differently.

Yup, obviously.

But I don't really have any other evidence aside from what I've already put forth, so I guess we agree to disagree.

I only disagree to ~55%, and agree to ~45%.

Using the current, actual spell level is probably easier to do, anyways.

Bye
Thanee